commercial bush hogging questions

[jt7157]

Do any TBN members have any expericence commercial bush hogging? What are the positives and negatives of this venture? I would appreciate any and all who share their experience as I am considering doing some commercial work in my area (middle Tennessee). Can it be profitable? What are the dangers of mowing someone's property? Has anyone ever required a deposit upfront to cover that roll of barbed wire that wasn't there? Thanks in advance.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Do any TBN members have any expericence commercial bush hogging? What are the positives and negatives of this venture? I would appreciate any and all who share their experience as I am considering doing some commercial work in my area (middle Tennessee). Can it be profitable? What are the dangers of mowing someone's property? Has anyone ever required a deposit upfront to cover that roll of barbed wire that wasn't there? Thanks in advance.

I've got a cousin that keeps 4 or 5 tractors and operators running all summer doing just that. I'm about to start mowing for a property management company this summer. In past years I've mowed for several real estate agents.

It CAN be profitable like any business. Or it can be a loosing proposition. You set the standard for which one .

The dangers are plenty. Sink holes, hidden rocks, trash and junk hidden in the weeds, old fences, boards with nails, old car batteries, tires, and the list goes on. That all goes with the territory. Doubtful anyone will be willing to pay extra, even after the fact, for damage done. You need to figure potential losses in with your rates.

You need as much liability insurance as you can reasonably afford. Have your insurance agent list their requirements as far as equipment.(saftey items) Make certain your tow vehicle is adaquate, well insured, and legal as a commercial vehicle. Plan on replacing mowers every few seasons. It will get trashed. Get a top-of-the-line heavy duty mower. Cheap "throw-aways" won't hold up to constant heavy use. That's where the difference in prices and quality comes forth.

Don't take "marginally profitable jobs". If you can't make your rates, let someone else have the job. Never take a job at a reduced rate on the hope or promise of "I'll give you lots of work in the future if you do this one for next to nothing". You won't last long if you're a charitable organization.

Some areas seem to prefer hourly rates. Some prefer a "by the job" set price. I prefer to work by the hour myself. Make it clear up front what you can do or CAN'T do. (i.e. mowing extremely steep banks and such)

I've done better with older tractors that have a lower initial investment. That keeps my overhead lower. That in turn lets me work at a more reasonable rate. It's been my finding that people I work for don't give a hoot how proud I am of a shiney new tractor. All they want is a good job at a good price.

Learn how to do your own tire repair. You will get flats. In rough conditions, you'll get many flats. (Think about foam-filling your tires)

There's easier ways to make a living. Fortunately I'm not dependent on the income from my mowing to live on. It's just a way to make a few extra bucks.

 

[deereguy]

All very good points and things to keep in mind and don't forget the insurance!! Also, a guy locally has a few guys with him that run around the site with brush cutters, then get where the tractor can't, close to trees, etc. Also, when you are hoggin'- read the weeds, if the species of weeds change, so does the ground/soil they grow in or something foreign is there. I did a bush-hogging job a number of years ago (it was a retention basin that was dry), walked it and seemed safe, what I didn't see was a few bowling balls that some kids had rolled down a paved drive. OUCH!!

Good Luck!!

 

[vallyfarm]

Farmswithjunk pretty much said it all, just do not forget the insurance. Mike

 

[rutwad]

I am hoping to do this myself, and you have mentioned some good points. I know it has to vary greatly, but what are the rates and where are you located. This is for a 15' cutter.


Thanks

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I am hoping to do this myself, and you have mentioned some good points. I know it has to vary greatly, but what are the rates and where are you located. This is for a 15' cutter.


Thanks

We quoted a figure of $55 per hr for a 45hp/6' mower, $65 per hr for 60hp/7', 3 hr minimum and now that Johnny (my son) has his new rig, we'll be asking $95 per hr for 90hp/15' with 5 hr min on the 15'er. That will include travel time. All our work will be with-in 1 hours drive time from home. You should know this is probably the cheapest area in the universe for this sort of work. Everybody and their uncle has a tractor and mower. We weren't the cheapest bid price turned in, just the lowest of the qualified bidders. Also, we quoted $50 per hr for a man and weedwhacker. At first it was just going to be 6' or 7' mowers, but our "customer" threw in several larger tracts that really needed a bigger mower.

 

[scott_vt]

Mornin JT,
I have done a fair amount of bushoging but not commercially. Ontop of all the other good info you have got from the others, I would suggest some backup equipment. Tractor, bushog etc..... if your in the middle of a big job and run into trouble, you cant just walk away from it without finishing IMO.

As Farm mentions, it can get expensive real quick !

 

[LoneCowboy]

You have to make sure you not only make money for you, but pay for your equipment (replacement, maint, etc)

also, I like working by the hour (handles stupid issues like rolls of wires and such, i'm still getting paid to undo it, that really sucks BTW), but I've found that most of my customers don't.
We charge by the acre. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't win as much. it all works out. it also means that bigger equipment is more profitable. Customers seem to like this better, they know the price, plus I don't thave to drive out and bid it, I can do it over the phone. (which is less money wasted) it doesn't vary enough to worry about. (we have mostly grass and small saplings here, nothing big, that may not apply to your area)

big large properties get a lesser price obviously (because i can stay busy all day), but there is a point at which I just don't go below. Let someone else lose money working hard, I can make nothing sitting around watching TV, I don't have to work hard to do it.

Expect lots of maintenance.

 

[jt7157]

Thanks everybody for your very helpful responses. You've given me much to ponder. I thought I might try to offset the cost of buying a new tractor with some commercial work, but I now wonder if it's worth it. Thanks again.

 

[BRUSHTAMERS]

If you've got a part or full time job with flexible hours, and the ground is good 10 months out of the year for mowing, I think you'd probably do O.K. for purchasing a tractor and mower for commercial work. Farmwithjunk and I are on the same page entirely with the exception of new/used equipment. I started my Brushcutting business with the motto, "Old fashioned experience, Cutting edge tools". and had the resources to buy a new tractor and mower at the time. Have done O.K. with the business, upgraded to a Cab model 4x4 tractor last year, and replaced a broken brush hog the fall previous.I do all kinds of mowing, but with mostly 5' to 7' mowers. There's a private outfit locally that has a Cat Challenger with flex wing mower,has a buttload of property in the county, and about 200 guys and girls working for him. Don't see myself getting into that market. This big owner can work any larger property, and absorb any loss, without going under. I've been diverse in implements, and bring the mower to suit the terrain and offending grass or brush. I own a 6' brush hog,6' offset rear flail, 7 1/2' finish mower, 10' boom flail, 6' box scraper, 6' landscape rake,4" chipper/shredder, and run a 4 in 1 bucket on the front of the tractor. Oregon law prohibits me from any subsoil work unless I have a contractors license, so I don't have a backhoe yet, for rooting out stumps. But I could purchase one for personal use. See how that works?Don't get discoureged quite yet,If your're willing to put in the hours, you can make this work, IF the demand is there in your area. Sidey BRUSHTAMERS

 

[Farmwithjunk]

If you've got a part or full time job with flexible hours, and the ground is good 10 months out of the year for mowing, I think you'd probably do O.K. for purchasing a tractor and mower for commercial work. Farmwithjunk and I are on the same page entirely with the exception of new/used equipment. I started my Brushcutting business with the motto, "Old fashioned experience, Cutting edge tools". and had the resources to buy a new tractor and mower at the time. Have done O.K. with the business, upgraded to a Cab model 4x4 tractor last year, and replaced a broken brush hog the fall previous.I do all kinds of mowing, but with mostly 5' to 7' mowers. There's a private outfit locally that has a Cat Challenger with flex wing mower,has a buttload of property in the county, and about 200 guys and girls working for him. Don't see myself getting into that market. This big owner can work any larger property, and absorb any loss, without going under. I've been diverse in implements, and bring the mower to suit the terrain and offending grass or brush. I own a 6' brush hog,6' offset rear flail, 7 1/2' finish mower, 10' boom flail, 6' box scraper, 6' landscape rake,4" chipper/shredder, and run a 4 in 1 bucket on the front of the tractor. Oregon law prohibits me from any subsoil work unless I have a contractors license, so I don't have a backhoe yet, for rooting out stumps. But I could purchase one for personal use. See how that works?Don't get discoureged quite yet,If your're willing to put in the hours, you can make this work, IF the demand is there in your area. Sidey BRUSHTAMERS

On using "older" tractors..... We also have a brand new Deere 6430 (w/cab) and a brand new Bush Hog 2615 batwing for bigger work. Johnny (my son) farms on a small scale just like his ol' man did. The tractor's cost will be split between the two enterprise's. On the smaller jobs, with the level of competition around here, the work just doesn't pay a high enough price to make buying all new tractors a viable alternative. There just flat isn't enough money in it..... The "older" tractors I have are all in relatively "new" condition. I refuse to use junk. (Got a couple competitors that don't mind using garbage)

We have one of those "mowing tycoons" here too. Lots of new (read EXPENSIVE) trucks, fancy uniforms replete with logo's, several "supervisors" riding around from job to job, an office that would satisfy Donald Trump, and enough overhead to rival our federal gov. In good times they have it going on. When times get a little leaner (as they appear to be now) they have their hands full trying to make payroll and pay for their equipment. I'm "old school" about that. I'd rather have money in the bank than a yard full of high tech tractors. I'm not opposed to replacing worn out equipment with new, IF....IF there's enough work already contracted to pay for it, but I won't "speculate" and buy on the hope that I will someday garner enough work to make it pay off. I never did that with my farm, and I won't do it with this mowing business.

I'm getting along in the years myself. Under normal circumstances, I'd just mow my own ground and let someone else have all this big fun. My goal is to start up a "family business" to keep my son-in-law (hence my daughter and grandkids) fed. My son will be involved too, but he's an industrious type who would make it on his own with no help from me. (SIL is quite a different story) As much as anything, I'm trying to drive home a point. The point is, don't spend what you don't have. Buy what you NEED, not what you want. We won't have one single piece of equipment that carries a payment book. Everything is paid for from the get-go. If work gets slow, there's no collection agency pounding on the door. I've raised the point with both of them that when you're finished and gone home, no one (except your banker) will know if you mowed their property with a 2007 cab tractor or a 1970 plain jane utility if you're equipment is in decent shape. Also keep in mind that this is a start up business, NOT one with a 20 year accumulation of dedicated, loyal customers. Don't dive head-first into the pool until you know just how deep it is.

 

[LoneCowboy]

farmswithnotjunk makes a good point, the key to any business is cash flow, not profits. And eating up your cash flow on payments is a killer.
I have mostly new equipment because I don't want to mess with being down when I most need it. Not assured, but maybe somewhat more on line. However, I did find out (see NH forum) that if you want a tractor a specific way, you have to order it, it takes 3 months. Decided to roll the dice on that one and order it, hopefully it arrives just as mowing season gets going (late May here) because it can handle much bigger stuff.

Advertising is a killer, you have to do it while you are getting established (or growing) and it can really eat cash. (once you get established of course, you can cut back, most customers come from word of mouth, but how do you get those core customers?). Business fees, business cards, insurance, truck (you'll need commercial insurance), etc, it all adds up.

You can make money at it, but don't underbid, figure out what you need to make, then see if that's the going rate around you. Never compete on price, someone can always undercut you. (look what happened to the lawnmowing business, used to be a good business, now, it's all taken over by uninsured, non-tax paying fly by night IE's). I figure that the cost of capital alone shoudl keep most people out of the bigger pastures. (you can start a lawn mowing business for 10k, costs a lot more to get the equipment for pastures). However, the prices have to be more to recover that too.
HTH

 

[rutwad]

We quoted a figure of $55 per hr for a 45hp/6' mower, $65 per hr for 60hp/7', 3 hr minimum and now that Johnny (my son) has his new rig, we'll be asking $95 per hr for 90hp/15' with 5 hr min on the 15'er. That will include travel time. All our work will be with-in 1 hours drive time from home. You should know this is probably the cheapest area in the universe for this sort of work. Everybody and their uncle has a tractor and mower. We weren't the cheapest bid price turned in, just the lowest of the qualified bidders. Also, we quoted $50 per hr for a man and weedwhacker. At first it was just going to be 6' or 7' mowers, but our "customer" threw in several larger tracts that really needed a bigger mower.

Is this for commercial jobs or pasture clipping? I am hoping to line up several farms to keep cut.

 

[shane]

Wow Farmswithjunk, I'm truly impressed with your sage advice. I hope these young whipper-snappers are listening. (I'm 38 )
I personally would not start a mowing business just to help pay for a tractor. Sounds like a losing proposition. One would be better off in the long run just picking up a job working for someone else until the tractor is paid off.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Is this for commercial jobs or pasture clipping? .

Not sure what the difference would be.... Most of the property I'll be mowing is reasonably well maintained, no heavy brush to cut, and privately owned. Some is (was) pasture land or just open country. I'll be mowing for profit (the plan anyway) , so that makes it a commercial venture, hence it's a "commercial job". Most of the work is scheduled for 3 or 4 cuttings per year. A couple that are in city areas that require by law to keep grass/weeds under 10", we'll cut maybe 6 times a year, as needed. With average rainfall considered, some of the properties will have grass/weeds 2' to 2-1/2' tall on first couple cuttings of the year. But ALL is "cleared land". First round scheduled to kick off in about a month.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I personally would not start a mowing business just to help pay for a tractor. Sounds like a losing proposition. One would be better off in the long run just picking up a job working for someone else until the tractor is paid off.

There is that exception to every rule known.... The quick mowing job for a neighbor where you make $200 in half an hour. But that kind of windfall isn't every day. Hard to pass up for the guy who's just "trying to make a payment". But the idea of starting up a business doing enough work to break even isn't exactly "good business". McDonalds drive-thru job has better benifits AND $8 an hour.

We have enough work signed and sealed to make the first season a success. No way I'd go into this speculating on enough business to break even. Insurance is paid ahead for the entire year. We bought a new batwing mower. Myself, my son, and my son-in-law each have property we'll be mowing this summer. They get an hourly wage. I get what's left over at the end of year one, then the business is theirs, and I'm going fishing.