Comparing 3 Zero Turn Mowers

[TGF]

While I know you did not have the JD Z series residential ZTR's in here I thought I would chime in. I have a Z445 and while it gets the job done I would not buy it again. It has had a weakness on the left side since I got it and I have taken it in for warranty work twice. The guys at JD said its just the way it is. Now why I am posting, apparently the Toro and JD's share many of the same drive system components and are of similar design. My neighbor has a Bad Boy and since the grass is always greener I am thinking I should have gone that way.

 

[MESSMAKER]

I think Toro and Exmark are a lot the same. I am pretty sure I would go with the widest deck I could afford, no mattter which mower I picked. Scag and Exmark rule in my neck of the woods. I believe I would consider a small tractor and a rear mount finish mower. You can buy a trail mower to pull offside and make a 8-9 foot cut in open area. You may want to consider using a rough cut mower on most of it and limiting the amount you finish mow.

 

[greasemonkeyok]

If you go to the Ferris Industries web page and look at the corporate history, you will find that Toro, Ferris, and Simplicity are all owned by Briggs & Stratton. All of the Ferris models, except the basic line, have independent suspension on all four wheels, which helps with the bumps a lot.

I don't own a Ferris, but I keep looking at Zturn mowers and so far they appear to be the top of the lines.

 

[SixHoeBob]

Sell off a few acres and buy a Ferris. Get a V-twin with a horizontal crank shaft.
Make sure whatever mower you buy has an oscillating front axle (pivots on the frame like a tractor), It is much safer as far as steering and stopping on hills. Get a 60" deck, 72" will tend to the scalp humps more. Water cooled if you find a money tree. I have a 27hp, 60" Exmark that works great, except the rigid front end has added some excitement to the mowing experience. The oscillating axle is more important than it appears. A hilly lawn is a lot different than a dealer's gravel parking lot.

 

[dan daly]

Ok so here's the update:


I bought the mower on May 7th. Dealer said it would be delivered to me in 7-10 days. Mower was finally delivered on May 24th. Part of the problem with delivery was that they told me they needed to coordinate it with other shipments to save on gas money. I understand gas is expensive, but this put me off some since I paid a separate delivery charge.

Mower shows up on the 24th. I run it some that night, works ok. I do notice though that I didn't get all the parts I should have. They installed the finishing kit in advance for me. They didn't give me the hardware needed to reattach the standard deflector, or the original set of blades that they took off to put on the finishing blades. I call the dealer the next morning and the missing parts are supposed to be in the mail.

Speaking of the next morning, I start the mower up "BOOM" backfire, and the engine dies. I call the dealer and they suggest I let it cool down since it's a hot day. Yeah it's somewhat hot- but it's the summer, isn't that when you mow? So I let it cool all day and night.

Try it this morning and the mower will run but sounds like an airplane that is about to crash. Engine is very choppy and has very low power. Even with throttle all the way up it just puts along.

So I go back and forth with the dealer on the phone. They give me some suggestions for fixes, none of which work. So now they are supposed to be coming to get it and take it into the shop on Tuesday- earliest they said they were available.

Good grief. If one of you guys invents a time machine let me borrow it, because I wish I'd gone with a different mower and a different dealer. At least if I had gone with Ariens at Home Depot or the Bad Boy at Tractor Supply and this had happened, I could have returned it no problem. Dealer says they won't take a return because it's against Toro policy. I know lemons happen even with good products, and I hope that's the case here. Right now I have an almost $7k paper weight sitting in my shed with 1.7 hours on the meter.

 

[PossumHound]

Is this a new unit? Where's the warranty? Hold the dealers feet to the fire. Whatever engine is in there the engine maker is the one with the actual warranty liability, if this is a motor issue, and the dealer that sold it to you is responsible for coordinating repairs.

PH

 

[dan daly]

Yes it's a new unit. Dealer has said they will coordinate repairs, which is why they said they will come Tuesday to pick up the mower and bring it to their shop (I don't have the means of transporting it myself, and Tuesday is the earliest they say they can come get it). I tried calling back to speak to the manager of the dealer directly later today, secretary took a message asking him to call me back. He never called back. I'll call again tomorrow.

At this point, I'm just fed up. I bought a more expensive unit then they have at the big box stores to hopefully avoid problems with the machine, and I bought it from a dealer to get better service. So after paying for the top end of my price range, I have a machine that won't run and service I'm not happy with.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I can tell you from experience that you can pay now or pay later. My neighbor is a commercial mower and I take care of all his equipment. Get something with a Kawasaki. He started out with Dixon, then Toro, Scag, and now days Ferris. If he had spent the money right the first time they would have lasted him. Now yes, he is commercial but I have a neighbor on the other side.

We both have 3 acres. I a tractor and a 6' finish mower. He bought a cheap Sears ZTR back in about 03. After 3 years it was shot. The gear box and the cheap Briggs engine was done. I can not tell you how many spindles, belts, clutches, broken axles, trashed gear boxes, ect he put on that thing. So whats he do? Goes out and buts a Cub Cadet that is identical to the Sears and its now shot. Same issues, same headaces, same money pit. So now he has 2 $4000 mowers that do not run and are worth nothing.

If he would have spent $6000 the first time around he would have not been paying the other neighbor to mow his lawn and have 1/4 of his money in his pocket still.

You have a lot of lawn to mow. Save your money and get something good. This is not a area to go cheap.

Last word, Get a FERRIS with a Kawasaki. Yes, Kubota, Scag, Exmark, Bad Boy, and a few others make a good machine but nothing will last or cut like a Ferris.

By the way, the commercial guy next door sells his every 3 years for tax and business purposes, not because they are worn out. Last ones he sold were Ferris 2000 60" deck with Kawasaki. He got $800 less than what he paid for them. They had gone up some in price but they hold the value well.

Chris

 

[dan daly]

The mower I got that died has a kawasaki engine.

 

[smiths enterprise]

So after a few days of researching online, I got out today and drove around to several places to actually see, touch, and ride some zero turn mowers and ask some questions about them. At the end of my day I have 3 candidates:

1) Ariens Max Zoom w/ 60 in deck. I can get this at home depot for $4500 (they want $5000, and I can use a 10% discount). It's a 10ga deck. 26 HP Kawasaki engine. ZT-3100 transmission, 20 in rear wheels, 10 in front ones.

2) Bad Boy ZT w/ 60 in deck. $5000 at Tractor Supply Warehouse, although feeling out the employee who talked to me, I may be able to haggle with the manager to get a sale done. 7ga deck. 27 Kohler engine. 20 in rear wheels, 13in front ones.

3) Toro Titan MX. Tractor dealership not too far away has the 48in version at $6k and the 54in one at $6.4k. That his asking price. Not sure how much he'd be willing to move. 48 in deck has a 22hp Kawasaki engine/ 24hp Kawasaki for the 54 in model. Better suspension. Bigger wheels- 22 inches in rear, 12 in front. 10 gauge decks.

I stopped to see the mowers in the order I listed them. At home depot the Ariens made all of the other mowers there look like toys. Then I got to tractor supply and the Bad Boy was much more substantial then the Ariens was. Then I got to the tractor dealer and the Toro's were more impressive yet. I've read a fair number of negative comments on the Kohler engine which seems to be the biggest strike against the Bad Boy. I'm looking to mow 8-14 acres, with slopes, and uneven ground. Gentleman at the tractor dealership said the MX titan's are the minimum I should consider, because that workload will destroy a residential machine pretty quickly. He was pretty persuasive and everything he told me jived with what I had already read on my own online, so I think I'll go with the MX5480 Toro. It's more money then I really want to spend right now, but I also need something that will work and realize buying something that won't just because it's cheaper isn't going to save me any money in the long run.

Just wanted to type this out to work through my thought process. If you think I've overlooked something I should be considering please let me know.

If you have a World LAwn dealer near you I would check theese bad boys out, they have a 6 guage metal deck and Kawasaki engines. I think for the money they are the best on the market. they just bought out Encore if I understand correctly

 

[Carl_NH]

dandaly,

Its too bad you havent had the best experience, but as others have said, Ferris, with your lawn and area that would be the best choice...

For your Kawasaki it sounds like a fuel issue being this is a new unit. This is not typical of the Kawasaki at all.

The other aspect, dealer prep, attention to detail is definitely lacking in your case and it seems they are interested in moving units in volume and not dealing with the "details" very well.

I have a Ferris IS2000 - looked for 2 years and got a new leftover unit last year $7K - runs great, cuts great, is a solid machine and a great ride.

You need to stick with your dealer, but if your Toro isnt right after they return it and you need to do this again, then once you hit three times (hope you dont) , there is a lemon law you can enact in most states.

There are a host of other things you should check, like the deck level, even left to right and there should be a slight angle front to back 1/8' higher in front than back.. Then the L& R drives should track straight for 100' with both levers full forward..Then everything should be greased and lubed - the spindles take a fair amount of grease..

Good luck with your repairs and hope you are mowing soon..

 

[rabidracin]

The one thing I would definitely look for in a zero turn is a RD deck. Think a SD would be a disadvantage as if yo cut your lawn your lawn in sections you will get windrowing. As with a RD you can mow from front to back with absolutely no windrowing. Just speaking from my experience. My lawn is 4 acres and I got a RD deck this year and love it.

 

[dan daly]

what is an rd deck?

 

[rabidracin]

RD= rear discharge
SD= side discharge

 

[probolpher]

Your dealer should be bending over backward to get this fixed for you asap. I manager a large car dealership and if we have a customer that has problems with their brand new car we take care of it asap no questions asked.

The dealer and the manufacturer do not want a bad reputation. You should be calling the salesperson who sold it to you. They are usually the most responsive. Service departments get so many repair calls, they usually put them into a cue based on who called first. The salesperson will make sure your name gets put at the front of the list. If your salesperson is not giving you the answers you want, call and speak to someone in charge. If the person in charge is not giving you the answers you want, then you ended up purchasing from a bad dealer. If this is the case, you should let him/her know that you plan on posting your bad experience on google reviews. This will normally get someones attention quickly.

Good Luck.

 

[dan daly]

The dealer manager is the one who sold me the mower. I left him a message yesterday. He didn't call me back all day today, so I called again and spoke to him. He says they will come Tuesday to look at the mower.

I reminded him that at the time of the sale, he told me that I would get better service from him then either Home Depot or Tractor Supply (where I was looking at competing models). I went on to tell him that if I'd bought from either of them and my mower died the 2nd day I could have returned it for a refund- so where is my better service? He responded by saying I was unreasonable.

The day before another employee at the dealership had told me they couldn't take any returns because it was Toro policy. Today I called Toro and they told me there is no such policy. Each dealer sets their own policy.

 

[beppington]

The dealer manager is the one who sold me the mower. I left him a message yesterday. He didn't call me back all day today, so I called again and spoke to him. He says they will come Tuesday to look at the mower.

I reminded him that at the time of the sale, he told me that I would get better service from him then either Home Depot or Tractor Supply (where I was looking at competing models). I went on to tell him that if I'd bought from either of them and my mower died the 2nd day I could have returned it for a refund- so where is my better service? He responded by saying I was unreasonable.

The day before another employee at the dealership had told me they couldn't take any returns because it was Toro policy. Today I called Toro and they told me there is no such policy. Each dealer sets their own policy.

Wow, so far this is a really unfortunate situation. I certainly don't blame you for being P.O.'d. Hopefully it gets better soon.

I'm also not at all surprised that anybody at a vehicle dealership would lie ("Toro's return policy").

Maybe the thing to do is to make our agreements with dealers such that we pay them say 75% prior to delivery, with the other 25% in an escrow account that you document for him. Then after say 3 days of no problems, he gets paid the rest. I dunno, just brainstorming.

 

[Diamondpilot]

The mower I got that died has a kawasaki engine.

That may be the case but in my opinion they are the best. Again, its just my opinion. I like Ford trucks also and I know from time to time they die also.

It could have been just a bad motor from the factory but my guess is its a electrical or fuel problem that is part of the mower itself, not he motor.

Chris

 

[Carl_NH]

The dealer manager is the one who sold me the mower. I left him a message yesterday. He didn't call me back all day today, so I called again and spoke to him. He says they will come Tuesday to look at the mower.

I reminded him that at the time of the sale, he told me that I would get better service from him then either Home Depot or Tractor Supply (where I was looking at competing models). I went on to tell him that if I'd bought from either of them and my mower died the 2nd day I could have returned it for a refund- so where is my better service? He responded by saying I was unreasonable.

The day before another employee at the dealership had told me they couldn't take any returns because it was Toro policy. Today I called Toro and they told me there is no such policy. Each dealer sets their own policy.

Dandaly,

The dealer response is one that I expect when his back is against the wall, he knows what he said to sell you the unit, and indeed TSC or HD, or large entities will accept the return because it doesnt affect their bottom line or salary.

For your dealer the first issue was delivery - he didnt have stock, then had to get the unit along with others to consolidate his costs, it was late, he was under pressure.

Personally I would contact the Toro regional rep - only to outline your total experience to date (late delivery, shipping, and other issues) and say your dealer is doing x/y/z, however you bought his BRAND based on reputation of a solid machine.

This tact will at least connect you direct to Toro and if you need to escalate this you can.

I dont know how far you are from your dealer, but I would definitely read your manuals and inspect this with a fine tooth comb before delivery the second time.

 

[tomslawn]

well i just replaced 2 heads on jd ztracks this week, the motor sits to close to the seat and cannot draw in air to cool the engine so grass builds up and overheats the motor casing valve guides to push out, i love the ztrack but they should have went with a verticle engine so it could breath, as for your warranty i would be in that dealership everyday till they replaced my engine or the whole unit. less than 2 hours and it sounds like valve/pushrod problems. don't that that bull. my op.