Complex machine

[CJONE]

I thought we were/are discussing tractors?:confused2:
I can't comment on well service rigs, or other specialty rigs.
Is there documented proof of higher fuel consumption, or is that just anecdotal evidence?

They are powered by diesel engines correct? Then they will ALL have to meet tier 4 spec or higher. The only engine so far
that has done well with this that I have PROOF of [records] has been Cummins and they lost a little. Look at ALL the pickup diesels have any of them
gained mileage? No they have all lost with the added emmissions. Within the last 2 months or so I have sold 8 or more Diesel power
units from 24HP Kubotas to a 175 HP Cummins and the Cummins has to be criticle on fuel useage. The next 175 HP unit will cost
in the neighborhood of 5K more because of emmissions and [just a educated guess at 10% MORE fuel use] But I can let you know
because I will have to increase the fuel tank size to get a 24 hour run out of it. As far as the big HP stuff I work on it alot and I have
trouble getting enough off idle hp to run my Hydrostats and pumps with the new tier 4+ stuff. I also quoted 2 pump packages and had
to go to 600 HP engines where 550 HP engines used to do the job, the only difference, emmissions.
Like I have said before I will NOT comment on something unless I have experience with it.
You called me out, so how about your proof?
CJ

 

[n4msl]

I have since checked other tractors and found them all to be far more complex than what I am familiar with. Yes, I know that all machinery these days is high-tech and complicated, but I can't visualize a modern tractor operating for 50 years with few problems like an old 8N Ford. To me, complexity equals trouble at some point. In addition, I fear that the hoses and wiring underneath will be ripped off or otherwise damaged by projecting roots, fallen limbs, rocks etc. that the old MF didn't even notice. Perhaps I'll start bush hogging in reverse to avoid running over those two inch diameter trees.

Of course I will adapt to the new and will probably be able to successfully troubleshoot and repair the new as I did the old, but I'll fondly remember the dirt simple MF as I drag out the multimeter and start pulling apart wire bundles and hunting for black boxes.

 

[DK35vince]

The Kioti DS 4110 would have been a much less complex design if thats what your prefer.

 

[Coyote machine]

They are powered by diesel engines correct? Then they will ALL have to meet tier 4 spec or higher. The only engine so far
that has done well with this that I have PROOF of [records] has been Cummins and they lost a little. Look at ALL the pickup diesels have any of them
gained mileage? No they have all lost with the added emmissions. Within the last 2 months or so I have sold 8 or more Diesel power
units from 24HP Kubotas to a 175 HP Cummins and the Cummins has to be criticle on fuel useage. The next 175 HP unit will cost
in the neighborhood of 5K more because of emmissions and [just a educated guess at 10% MORE fuel use] But I can let you know
because I will have to increase the fuel tank size to get a 24 hour run out of it. As far as the big HP stuff I work on it alot and I have
trouble getting enough off idle hp to run my Hydrostats and pumps with the new tier 4+ stuff. I also quoted 2 pump packages and had
to go to 600 HP engines where 550 HP engines used to do the job, the only difference, emmissions.
Like I have said before I will NOT comment on something unless I have experience with it.
You called me out, so how about your proof?
CJ

I never said I have proof, and I didn't 'call you out'; I asked a question as to whether there is documented evidence for what you claimed to be the case. You provided what you know, and that's fine. Seems to me, that like all other emissions issues the roll-out ends up being ugly, and the fix comes after problems are found, if ever.

 

[CJONE]

I never said I have proof, and I didn't 'call you out'; I asked a question as to whether there is documented evidence for what you claimed to be the case. You provided what you know, and that's fine. Seems to me, that like all other emissions issues the roll-out ends up being ugly, and the fix comes after problems are found, if ever.

Sorry, I get in a bad mind set sometimes having to defend myself to people who take cheap shots and have no idea what they are talking about. You obviously are not one of them. My Cummins rep was in Friday and He does not have any good news except they are working with the new requirements and seem to have a handle on them but it won't be cheap $$$. So far no real fixes just bandaids to make the govenment happy. I still don't know how they figure burning more fuel = eco friendly. In Caterpillars case they have lost almost 1/2 of their mileage in some cases, sad. I don't know 100% if it is true but rumor has it that they are pulling out of the heavy truck market because of emissions. CJ