Concrete Construction Question

[Allen2]

Earlier this summer, I decided to start construction of a 18'x36' workshop in a wooded area of my back yard. I planned on putting in a footer, a few courses of block to get up to ground level, then a concrete floor. The rest would be typical wood-frame construction. This is how most of the detached garages and outbuildings in this area get done. It took a while to get the trees cut and cleared away from the site. I used my Kubota BX23 to dig out the stumps and carve out a level area for construction. I originally was going to do most of the construction myself, but given my slow progress I decided to call around to the concrete contractors to see if I could find someone to at least get the footer and floor in for me. At this point, I am thoroughly disgusted with these guys. Yes, I figured they would be busy this time of year especially with all the good weather we have been having in the northeast, but a week later and no one has even returned my phone call. So I am back to considering doing it myself.

My biggest obstacle is that there is no way to get a concrete truck back to where I would be building. It's probably about 150 feet from where the truck could get to, slightly down hill at least. I could probably find one other guy to help me wheelbarrow it in, but even then I am not sure it is feasible. One of my neighbors offered me the use of his cement mixer. I don't mind mixing my own concrete, but I am going to be limited in how much I can pour at one time. Has anyone heard of pouring a footer in sections? Would using rebar sticking out from the ends of each section be enough to keep it tied together? I welcome any of your comments or ideas. I am in the NE suburbs of Pittsburgh PA if it makes any difference.

Allen

 

[FL_Cracker]

I'm not sure of your layout but couldn't you use a concrete pump to bring your concrete back. tI have pumped as much as 100' but not sure about 150'+

Just a thought.....

 

[EddieWalker]

Have you calculated how many yards you'll need? On www.concrete.com there's a link to calculators which will have another link called concrete materials.

The problem with mixing youself is time and energy. It takes allot of both!!! Mixing and pouring one day and the doing it again the next day makes for a week pour. You really want it all done at once.

A cement truck caries around ten yards, give or take. Some older trucks are 8 to 9 yards and some newer ones can handle 12 to 15 yards. Figure ten for simple math.

You can rent a buggy that will carry it back and fourth for you from the cement truck. If the cement truck has to wait, he'll charge you for it, but that's just part of building things in the country.

Your other option if you don't need allot of concrete is to try the rental yards for a one yard trailer. I get mine from United Rentals. The trailer is $30 a day for the rental and the concrete was $80 a yard last year. It's more expensive then buying dozens of yards at a time from the main suppliers, but you can back that trailer right up to anything you can drive to.

I can mix and spread about three yards in a day. That's hustling and working my but off in perfect weather. Hot days with lots of humidity knocks that number way down. I mixed 3/4 of a yard a few weeks ago and was totally wore out afterwards.

If you mix yourself, don't use sack concrete from the home stores for home building. You want the larger rocks and stronger mix. You can buy the sand and gravel from most quaries fairly cheap and then add the Portland Cement to it when mixing. Depending on how much Portland Cement is how strong the mix will be.

Hope this helps,
Eddie

 

[Cliff_Johns]

Use one or two concrete buggys. They are fast a efficient little vehicles specially designed for this exact purpose. Rental for a day should be that much.

Cliff

 

[daveman]

I'd try doing the rental trailer idea mentioned. I rented one of the one yard trailers from a local readymix dealer a few years back and it worked great. I'm planing on doing that again when the workshop goes in next year. They even gave a break on the trailer rental if you can do 5 yards in a day. Don't know if that was just the local dealer or standard practice for all of them. That just my two cents worth anywho! Good luck on your project /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Keep us posted on the progress. (Pictures are nice too if you can!)

 

[bebster]

Allen,
If you do have to pour it in sections, all you need to do is put some rebar dowels horizontally sticking out to join the next section. I'd leave about 2' sticking out for the next section to link to. I've always put in 2 lengths of horizontal 1/2" rebar in my footings, and used plastic cable ties to join them. Home Depot has a good price on these. So when it comes time to add the next section, put down the new rebar within 2" of the seam, and then tie the new longer stick to the 2' dowel sticking out in in 2 places. That should join the 2 sections pretty well and keep them from settling differentially.

Just don't put a seam of a wall over the footing seam.

 

[bczoom]

Allen,

When you say there's no way to get a truck there, are you saying no trucks at all, or just a big truck. I'm up in Beaver county but around here, there's concrete companies that have 3 yd maximum trucks. They're a lot lighter and easier to get to places if you only need smaller loads. I've used Steckman's (724) 758-4278 for smaller projects.

I've also used a skidsteer for hauling concrete from truck to site.

Personally, I'd probably avoid doing it by myself. Like someone mentioned, avoid bags but to give you an idea, it takes approx. 50 80# bags to make 1 yard. That's a lot of work...

 

[jim_wilson]

I have had a similar experience to yours trying to find a contractor to pour the foundation for a garage/barn I am trying to get built before the snow flies. I used my BX23 to dig out the foundation area and then started calling around to foundation contractors. I'd say 8 out of 10 never even returned my calls - 2 of them did respond and actually came out and looked at the job and gave me quotes. While I was trying to get somebody to respond however I looked at all my options and since I have had some experience pouring concrete in the past I was trying to avoid having to do it myself if possible. Sounds like your biggest problem is actually getting the concrete out to where you will need it. The major problem with mixing and pouring yourself is that for something as large as a footer or the walls on what you are working on is that you just can't far enough ahead on the mixing to stay ahead of the concrete starting to cure. In my area at least it also becomes more expensive to do it yourself instead of calling in the trucks.

For the footer at least it sounds like your best option is to either rent one or two of those concrete buggies if they would handle your terrain - or get a pumper truck to come in. Once you start laying the blocks the problem is a little different. If you are going to fill the voids in the blocks (which from everything I have read is highly recommended) then that could be a do it yourself job with a mixer. Because each void is separate from the next one you dont have to worry as much with keeping up with the pour. If you decide to do this yourself I highly recommend buying or renting a mixer. I have rented mixers before and earlier this summer I bought a small cement mixer - which I just had the chance to use the other day - and it is way better than mixing by hand. For me the mixer makes the difference between being able to work all day and lasting maybe a couple of hours if I had to mix by hand. Oh yeah - and the tractor helps to carry the cement bags /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[caylor]

Attached is typical detail I use for construction joints in grade beams. The rebar extension is good, but I also like the shear blockouts shown on the detail.

 

[Charlie_in_TX]

Another option to get it back there, use a gunite (might be called shotcrete) company. I built a pool a couple years ago. The gunite was 6000 psi, blown in place and about $100 a yard and best of all, I didn't have to lift a finger.

Gunite, if you have never seen it installed, is a sand portland mixture blown down a 4in hose. At the end of the hose water is mixed with it. It is dry enough to walk on when it hits the ground.

PS 6000 psi is far stronger than 'standard' concrete.

 

[JohnSinVA]

Have you considered using a gravel footer? Or perhaps concrete piers and a post frame structure? There are alternatives to a standard concrete footer which might be easier to get done on a tough site.

 

[jhb]

I'm about to start building some stone walls and was going to purchase a 5Cu-ft electric cement mixer (Home Depot?)

Are these worth it? They only run a few hundred dollars.

 

[Allen2]

Cracker,
The only pumpers I have seen around here have been the big truck mounted ones. It would probably be overkill for this job and probably too expensive for me. However, I have not checked with the rental yards to see what they have. I have put that on my to-do list.
Thanks.
Allen

 

[Allen2]

Eddie,
Thanks for all of the info. I have followed your projects on here and as far as I am concerned you are a god in the building world. I calculate the footer for this job to be about 6 yards. I mixed alot of concrete in a previous life, but that was a while ago and I was a whole lot younger. I know its hard work. That is why I was exploring doing it in pieces. I think before I start down that road I will make another round of phone calls. There have been some really good ideas mentioned here that I am going to check into. Thanks again for taking the time to respond. I look forward to more pics of your projects to give me inspiration.
Allen

 

[Allen2]

bczoom,
I never thought about checking on what size trucks they have. The concrete place I would probably use is just on the other side of the hill from me (still probably about 5 miles away). I went out and looked after reading your post. A smaller truck just may get back there if the guy was careful and the truck wasn't too big (and it stays dry). Another item for my to-do list for phone calls. Thanks for the idea.
Allen

 

[Allen2]

Jim,
So I guess the contractors here are no different than other places. I have been following your project as well. At least I don' t have the rocks to contend with, just alot of roots. The BX23 is pretty good about snapping through those. I will be checking with the rental places to see what kind of buggies they have. It may turn out to be one of the more cost effective solutions. I will be watching for your pics to see how your project turns out. Good luck getting it in before the snow hits.
Allen

 

[FL_Cracker]

If you had a FEL on the BX you could take it one bucket at a time back to the slab. Might take a little while but that's better than a wheel barrow.

I will admit I hate to think about concrete splattered all over my new tractor, but it would wash off if you got it quick....

 

[Allen2]

Bebster & Caylor,
Thanks for the ideas on doing the concrete in pieces. I like the idea of the notch in the end. I think that combined with rebar would work really well. I am really going to try not to do it in pieces. I have some more calls to make based on the ideas listed here. But if I am forced to, I will start doing in pieces. I don't really want to wait until next year.
Allen

 

[Allen2]

If I missed anybody with a reply - thanks! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I knew this forum would generate some helpful information. Based on your replys, here is a summary of what I plan on doing next. If anyone else ends up in a similar situation, maybe this will be of some help to them. Thank you all for your help. Hopefully I will be able to post some progress pics here in the near future. Here is a pic of the site in question. The clearing all the way to the back of the yard is the site I cleared. The driveway is to the lower right corner of the picture. The path back to the site would be along the deck and through the trees. A smaller truck just may be able to do that.

To-Do Summary:

1) Call some more contractors, maybe get lucky

2) Check with concrete supplier about smaller trucks and 1 yard trailers

3) Check with rental yard about concrete buggies and concrete pumps

Thanks all.
Allen

Thanks all.

 

[v8dave]

Call a concrete pumping company just to see how much they charge. It may end up being cheaper than a rental yard where you'll have to end up with a day's charges because you'll have to work your pour and clean the pump & hose before returning it. One truck load will be poured in an hour or less, likely only a few hours worth of pumper charges.

The pumps used in my shop construction were all trailer type pumps with hose laid out on the ground. Although, the longest run they made at my place was just a tad over 100'. Largest pour was about 40 yards--four trucks worth. Grand total of four pours--one for slab, one for walkways and short back drive, two for the 120' driveway.

One thing good about a pumping company is you get another guy on the job. The pump operator runs the end of the hose spitting out the concrete. He has a radio control for remote operation of the pumping machine.

The cost of a pumper may be less than you think if you factor in the paid truck waiting time.