moeh1
Gold Member
GFIs don't like a shared neutral, but are code for outbuilding use up here in NY.
Conduit in a pole barn - corners?
- Thread starter lhfarm
- Start date
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mattcage
Member
eepete,
thats some fancy work there. If I ever get to build a barn, I will steal your ideas!
thats some fancy work there. If I ever get to build a barn, I will steal your ideas!
tommu56
Elite Member
eepete
Is there any reason you didn't bend the conduit?
It saves a lot of couplings and hang ups when pulling.
Ive got a pipe viper to Keep them round and it works verry good.
tom
Is there any reason you didn't bend the conduit?
It saves a lot of couplings and hang ups when pulling.
Ive got a pipe viper to Keep them round and it works verry good.
tom
eepete
Platinum Member
tommu56: No particular reason I used couplings. It was a 90 degree world, and I kept the bells pointing in one direction. Also, this was 3/4" conduit with either 1 or 2 #12 circuits or 1 or 2 #14, so there was lots of room.
There are a few places, like coming out of the big 2' box where I used two 45's to get up off the wall, and then a 90 where I could have done a bend.
I was also a one man band, so using the pre-bent pieces allowed me to stack, plug, and try my way through to approaches. Sometimes it's easier to try a few things then to think and get it right the 1st time.
Bringing the conduit in from the ground, I did bend some 45's and 90's to get a custom fit. this was on some 1.5" pipe and 3/4 pipe. I did an outside flood light this afternoon, and I really should have done a custom bend. But, by the time I realized it I was 80% of the way done. Tomorrow I do the other light, and will probably custom bend it.
I did try to custom bend a 2 1/2" piece once, and it did not go well. I suspect if I did more of this type of work, I'd bend more (and have more tools to do it). And of course only when you finish a job do you really understand how to do it
Pete
There are a few places, like coming out of the big 2' box where I used two 45's to get up off the wall, and then a 90 where I could have done a bend.
I was also a one man band, so using the pre-bent pieces allowed me to stack, plug, and try my way through to approaches. Sometimes it's easier to try a few things then to think and get it right the 1st time.
Bringing the conduit in from the ground, I did bend some 45's and 90's to get a custom fit. this was on some 1.5" pipe and 3/4 pipe. I did an outside flood light this afternoon, and I really should have done a custom bend. But, by the time I realized it I was 80% of the way done. Tomorrow I do the other light, and will probably custom bend it.
I did try to custom bend a 2 1/2" piece once, and it did not go well. I suspect if I did more of this type of work, I'd bend more (and have more tools to do it). And of course only when you finish a job do you really understand how to do it
Pete
Gem99ultra
Elite Member
Your pictures came through great! Zoom works fine on all of them. And yes - that's some VERY nice work you've done there. Congrats!
OP
lhfarm
Veteran Member
Pete,
Thanks for the great pictures and ideas. I'm still not started, so this isn't late for me!
Thanks for the great pictures and ideas. I'm still not started, so this isn't late for me!
eepete
Platinum Member
I was so focused on the conduit I forgot to mention something about the wiring. Where you see the wire nuts in the 2' square box, the wires are tightly twisted together, then soldered, and then the wire nuts make a colorful decorative insulating cover. I've never been a big fan of them when currents could get high or when in outdoor environments. I did use them when I wired the lights up, but remember that each bulb (compact florescent 23W, 1300 lumen, equivalent to 90 watt incandescent) draws about 200 mA, so where I had three of them it's still .6 amps. Even a wire nut can handle .6 amps
YMMV
Pete
YMMV
Pete
powerpace
Platinum Member
Nice job and neat. Why conduit? It's way expensive and way overbuilt. Especially if your going to cover the bottom part with plywood. My 48X48 barn/shop/bunkhouse has no conduit except where the power comes in and out of the panel and ground and where it goes through the sheet metal siding. Mine is wired above code requirements.
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eepete
Platinum Member
Why conduit? Paranoia. I know I'll never have a problem with the wiring. I seen a few outbuildings burn down, and electrical issues are high on the list of why.
I've also kept all wiring, including the outside lights, so that they are not attached to the metal skin of the building. There is a ground rod that attaches to the skin on the outside. Of course, there is the ground rod (a different one) required by code for the AC, along with the separate ground that ties back into the house and it's ground system (a #2 ring around the house). The rebar for the floor is also bonded to ground. Now all bets are off when dealing with lighting, but, if the building is struck there's a good bet that it will stay on the outside of the building and the majority of the energy will find it's way the outside ground point. There's a good chance it won't use the wiring of the building as ground (and therefore not "invite" the bolt into the house). I've done a hypot test on the conduit, it's good to at least 10KV (highest I can measure with my equipment). I do have surge suppressors at the outbuilding and inside the house. Hopefully they can handle whatever remaining energy gets into the wiring (if it does).
powerpace, I agree you can do a great job without conduit. Did the wiring on my house, it's all romex no conduit except for the same cases you cite. I can only claim safety paranoia as my excuse. So yeah it's way overbuilt. As for way expensive, the 3/4" stick is cheap at a buck for 10 feet, it's the fittings that are bad - about $1.50 to turn a corner, $5 for the LBs or box that holds a switch or outlet. But I'm still at less than $220 for the conduit part of the wiring that could have been done with Romex. This does not count the 2.5" run you see coming out of the box- that's for another future project. It is more of a time cost, which is both free and the most expensive part of the job since I did it myself. I put the total cost of the electrical at about $1500 and most of that cost is driven by the desire to have a 100 amp sub panel in the building. The #2 wire, 100 amp panel, 2'x2' boxes (both in the garage and in the house), the 100 amp breaker was $50, and conduit in the house to the panel. There was also an additional $110 or so when originally building the house to put a 3" conduit into the area where I thought I would want a tractor garage some day. Not part of the electrical, but I also have a 3" drain PVC for low voltage and water. Without that, this project would have been a nightmare. Note to anyone building a house: Put some conduit stubs out 20-30 feet from some outside walls and measure carefully where they end.
You're 48x48 barn/shop/bunkhouse sounds wonderful. I know bigger is better, I just had to size and price this garage for my needs.
Pete
I've also kept all wiring, including the outside lights, so that they are not attached to the metal skin of the building. There is a ground rod that attaches to the skin on the outside. Of course, there is the ground rod (a different one) required by code for the AC, along with the separate ground that ties back into the house and it's ground system (a #2 ring around the house). The rebar for the floor is also bonded to ground. Now all bets are off when dealing with lighting, but, if the building is struck there's a good bet that it will stay on the outside of the building and the majority of the energy will find it's way the outside ground point. There's a good chance it won't use the wiring of the building as ground (and therefore not "invite" the bolt into the house). I've done a hypot test on the conduit, it's good to at least 10KV (highest I can measure with my equipment). I do have surge suppressors at the outbuilding and inside the house. Hopefully they can handle whatever remaining energy gets into the wiring (if it does).
powerpace, I agree you can do a great job without conduit. Did the wiring on my house, it's all romex no conduit except for the same cases you cite. I can only claim safety paranoia as my excuse. So yeah it's way overbuilt. As for way expensive, the 3/4" stick is cheap at a buck for 10 feet, it's the fittings that are bad - about $1.50 to turn a corner, $5 for the LBs or box that holds a switch or outlet. But I'm still at less than $220 for the conduit part of the wiring that could have been done with Romex. This does not count the 2.5" run you see coming out of the box- that's for another future project. It is more of a time cost, which is both free and the most expensive part of the job since I did it myself. I put the total cost of the electrical at about $1500 and most of that cost is driven by the desire to have a 100 amp sub panel in the building. The #2 wire, 100 amp panel, 2'x2' boxes (both in the garage and in the house), the 100 amp breaker was $50, and conduit in the house to the panel. There was also an additional $110 or so when originally building the house to put a 3" conduit into the area where I thought I would want a tractor garage some day. Not part of the electrical, but I also have a 3" drain PVC for low voltage and water. Without that, this project would have been a nightmare. Note to anyone building a house: Put some conduit stubs out 20-30 feet from some outside walls and measure carefully where they end
.You're 48x48 barn/shop/bunkhouse sounds wonderful
. I know bigger is better, I just had to size and price this garage for my needs.Pete
SpringHollow
Elite Member
Conduit is nice because it helps prevent rodents from chewing on your wires and protects them from damage from sharp things often swung in a barn.
As an aside, i was lucky - was doing some electrical work so i had the cover off off an electrical box in the basement. Came back a few days later, tested my work and the GFCI breaker blew. Checked my wiring at the fixture and it seemed fine. Back traced to the open box and there is a dead mouse stuffed in between the outlet and the adjacent switch. I wrap the sides of outlets and switches with electrical tape but you can still touch something live if you try. The mouse tried while part of him was touching the grounds. I love GFCI breakers, finding them much more reliable than the outlets. I keep looking for GFCI/Arc Fault Breakers.
Ken
As an aside, i was lucky - was doing some electrical work so i had the cover off off an electrical box in the basement. Came back a few days later, tested my work and the GFCI breaker blew. Checked my wiring at the fixture and it seemed fine. Back traced to the open box and there is a dead mouse stuffed in between the outlet and the adjacent switch. I wrap the sides of outlets and switches with electrical tape but you can still touch something live if you try. The mouse tried while part of him was touching the grounds. I love GFCI breakers, finding them much more reliable than the outlets. I keep looking for GFCI/Arc Fault Breakers.
Ken
