Confused about horsepower rating Kioti CK 2510 vs CK 351o

[jix]

Thanks Grandad4. I will heed your advice and I appreciate your input very much. It is the right tractor for me to replace my Kubota B7100, which was just to difficult to use, altho it did the job for a year. Only 13 Hp, but it handled the worst snow here in a century. It took me an average of five hours to do my driveway on some of those days. I had to ride the clutch in the rally big berms that the highway plow would push across my driveway. They were six feet deep compacted snow. I learned a lot that way, but it was very hard on the clutch and often stalled the engine at full power. I will never be afraid of snow again. By winters wend I had big piles of snow all around my house that were seven feet deep, forty feet wide and 160 feet long, plus the snowload crushed my garage and destroyed my boat inside. It was all insured, but what a mess!

My dealer said I should go with turf tires in snow, and I will. No chains necessary he said. It is what he runs, so I am trusting that he is right. AG tires do a number on my grass and industrial treads are only good on pavement. He also said that filling the tires was unnecessary.

I will surely enjoy the new tractor, my very first new one, and I am also sure that my wife will quickly learn these skills, if I cannot do the snow if I am too sick, I will know that she will not be helpless, altho it intimidates her now. A little training and practice, she will be happy and competent.
The new tractor has a Rops certified glass cab with heat and lots of lights, plus rearview mirrors. The HST is so easy to use, also. Worse case, I can buy center strand ring chains for 700 bucks. No worries.

BTW-- I am now seriously thinking about adding the loader. Your argument in favor of that is very persuasive. With the bucket detatched the loader arms will straddle the detachable snow blower arms on either side of the blower frame, if I didn't want to remove the blower frame, for a short time. The loader adds 4000 to the cost if I use zero percent financing for seven years. it will add very little to the monthly payment of 338 bucks for the tractor/ cab/ blower package

Kioti is picking up the rather huge exchange on the Canadian dollar too..a nice consideration worth 30% on the total cost of 32 grand with the loader plus my trade, the Kubota B7100, allowing me 12 grand in credit. Another three grand for attachments will put the deal at 35 K, 13% sales taxes in (about) so KIOTI eats about 4500 bucks n the exchange for our lower Canadian Dollar. Ivan is using a very sharp pencil on this deal for me.

Very nice to talk with you. Happy tractoring!
Jix

 

[Grandad4]

Your dealer is right about the turf tires being a good choice for snow, from what I've read and heard. We don't get much of the stuff here in North Carolina but I grew up in northern Ohio and lived in Minnesota, so I can appreciate at least some of what you're dealing with. The snowblower should be a great improvement over your previous setup and should enable you to move the snow far enough away that you don't get the huge piles.

Those that use a snowblower say it's easier to clear multiple times during a big snow event rather than waiting til it's all over to begin the job. Seems to me that also reduces the need for weight in the back of the tractor, although with that blower on the front, putting something on the 3 point in back would probably improve traction. It's also said that it works better to attack the piles left by the snowplow as soon as possible so they don't have time to settle and freeze hard. I expect you've had ample experience with all of this, based on your description of previous winters. Don't know if you'll actually get to liking the job, but that nice warm cab should make it a whole lot more tolerable.

Best wishes to you also!

 

[jix]

Hi Grandad.... You have a good appreciation of snow removal indeed. Weight on the back of the tractor is a factor to be sure, but not in the tires, I think. The box blade is my present answer. It will also function as a push-pull plow and when loaded will be a counterweight. Seems a good compromise with flexibility. I am going to talk to my dealer about a loader tomorrow to get his advice on that issue. The hassle I forsee is the Dismounting of the front snowblower each spring, and then re-attaching it in the fall, but the loader will offer me an few options I would like to have for some issues with landscaping and will do away with a dump box on the back. Flexibilty is an important consideration. The loader is the right answer
I watched some you tube videos of the front mount snowblower on a CK 2510 Kioti. It was impressive to see that machine attacking 3-feet of snow without straining the tractor engine, and it will blow snow a hundred feet easily. ]t is all coming together on budget (nearly)

I also watched videos about the tier 4 CRDI system, the whole enchilada. The principle is sound, but it is an intricate system. The key is to keep the fuel supply very clean and to change the fuel filter religiously. Warming up the ngine with a block heater in cold weather is also adviseable, befor starting or working the engine. My remaining concerns are all about the sensors it contains. If the EMU electronics have good input then the machine is a winner, but it isnot for a backyard mechanic to tamper with. Wpored is that the engine with the tier 4 system is a powereful brute, much stronger than the previous versions, but you gotta work with it, as it is designed to be used. Common rail systems are now a proven device, the weak point is the sensor functions....and no nonsense with weak or dead batteries, or jumpering techniques is tolerable...none.... Block heater, battery charging, clean fuel are the watchwords that come to mind for trouble free use.
The CK 2510 hydraulics are much improved by the high capacity hydraulic pump, again, keeping the hydraulic fluid clean and well filtered. If the owner is sensible about maintenance, the tractor is reliable in the long term, but good maintenance is critical to that. You must not forget that it is so. And if difficulties arise...call in the dealer for correction.. do not try to become your own expert.

This is my appreciation of the unit, so far. It is capable and well designed, but it is high tech...and PM is more expensive than it was before tier 4 came along. I accept that as an unavoidable cost of owning this machine and of getting its better performance capabilies.
I enjoy our discussions Grandad4. Thanks for your well balanced thoughts on this gadget. Regards.

We are seeing fall weather here in spades, Time now to get prepared for the coming of freezing wet weather. Let the games begin I shall be ready as never before. Preparedness is the key to successï½* with old man winter. I am gonna love the heated cab, ( with an auxililary fan inside):dance1:

 

[jix]

Just an update, Gents.
I decided to get a FEL as well as the front mounted snowblower. Two reasons: 1 resale value and 2. Utility.
This requires rear ballast, so I decided to have the tires filled with beet Juice. Now I do not need an attachment on the rear of the tractor for counter weight, but the turf tires have much thinner sidewalls, so I also changed my tire choice to Industrial tires, being less aggressive on the turf than AG tires. With the extra weight, they will have sufficient traction in snow. Chains may become necessary in winter, but that is a wait and see..
The bigger CK3510 can not be equipped with a FM Kioti snowblower as of this season, and a hydrauilc front snow blower is not a good choice for a 25 HP tractor without a rear mounted hydraulic PTO pump, so I decided that the 35 Hp was not a good decision, in my case, from any realistic perspective.

Now my decisions are finalized, I await the shipping of all the parts and final assembly of the CK2510 Kioti and its equipment, Sometime by the end of October it will be coming home. Final cost in Canadian dollars will be $44,000, with taxes in. If I had chosen the CK3510, it would be north of $59,000 with the hydraulic front mounted snow blower and auxillary rear PTO pump. That is simply too much money for the slight advantage of only 10 extra horsepower, which I do not need for my property uses.
I love the heated factory cab, power steering, the hydrostat tranny and the front blower. Snow, no matter how heavy, no longer worries me, nor my dear wife. Nor by the way, does the tier 4 configuration. The CK2510 engine has very few electronics, except in the fuel management components, nor electronic fuel injectors, and has many efficiency advantages over the former CK 20 engine. Incidentally, the CK2510 does not use the same CRDI technology as do the larger tractor engines, although details from Kioti are not deeply discussed anywhere. Basically the engine meets tier 4 specs by design changes in the combustion chamber and by a catalytic muffler, plus better fuel management through the new injection pump system improvements, which IS computer-managed. The new engine also produces more torque and horsepower at lower RPM than the former engine and with better fuel economy by 25%. Maintenance costs are about equal. It is just a much better engine with much greater power available at the implements through a bigger hydraulic pump. The hydraulic power steering is just really big plus too, for we oldsters.
Pictures forthcoming later.

Retro-fitting my older B7100 Kubota with a costom made steel cab, heater and so on was successful, but the gear-shifting tranny was a big pain. I more than broke even on it, made a small profit on sale, but it was a challenge. 13 HP is not enough, really, but it did the job I wanted, although too slowly. Back-up snow-blowing is also too awkward for me to do comfortably, even with rear-view mirrors and cameras, because of blowing snow in the wind...and six shear bolts is four too many!

Jix

 

[oldpilgrim]

I also changed my tire choice to Industrial tires, being less aggressive on the turf than AG tires. With the extra weight, they will have sufficient traction in snow.

You will find that you should fill the Industrial tires. Don't wait until after the first winter. Do it right away.

I think you've made the right choices for the right tractor for you. Good luck.

 

[murphy1244]

Jix, You really broke it down on your wants and needs. Good Job! I wish more future owners would do that and the machine they need would be easier to find.Good luck on your future Tractor,

PS- Welcome to the Pack!

 

[jimmysisson]

Yup, he opted for beet juice. Good choice, and sounds all around like a good decision on jix's part. I'll be thinking if him this winter while I'm plowing in an unheated half cab.
Jim

 

[jix]

Thanks for all your help and encouragement, Gents and TBN friends. I did exhaust every info resource I could lay my hands on in making my decisions about my new tractor, but you guys made me feel confident in all of them. This is not my first tractor, but it is my first new tractor.
I think my dealer was an important player too. His advice and info was right on with you guys and very accurate and he was doing more than just trying to make a sale. Ivan at Riverside Equipment in Maugerville NB is good people...and a very good dealer. He could have encouraged me easily to spend more money... but NO.. he steered my into much better decisions and saved me thousands of dollars by doing that instead of just grabbing the money. Ya gotta respect a guy that works thataway. KUDOS to IVAN.

I cannot wait to get some seat time with that sweet tractor and the FEL. I keep thinking of good work I can do with it right away, before the snow flies.

Thanks guys

Jix ....:dance1:

 

[jix]

OldPilgrim..you made a very nice post!.. and you have some nice shoulder flashes to grace your old uniform. I did some military service too..and even as a Canadian soldier was qualified as a US Army Ranger. There are a few of us around, but it is harder to find snakes to eat up here in the great white north, so we seldom meet each other, except at our paratrooper's old buddies funerals.
I like retirement, but miss the military camaraderie a heck of a lot..and my old buddies are getting thinned out too fast by the grim reaper.....:drink:

 

[N2DFire]

Just an update, Gents.
I decided to get a FEL as well as the front mounted snowblower. Two reasons: 1 resale value and 2. Utility.
This requires rear ballast, so I decided to have the tires filled with beet Juice. Now I do not need an attachment on the rear of the tractor for counter weight, but the turf tires have much thinner sidewalls, so I also changed my tire choice to Industrial tires, being less aggressive on the turf than AG tires. With the extra weight, they will have sufficient traction in snow. Chains may become necessary in winter, but that is a wait and see..

Just reading your reply to me along with this one and I think you have made the perfect choice. This should serve you well & I hope you enjoy it as much as possible.

Much like Jimmy, I'll be envying your cab while I'm out on the open station this winter.