Considering custom sawing.....

[linrick1]

Hey all, We are considering entering the custom sawing business and are interested in any input/information we can get, especially any who may be sawyers themselves or have hired a sawyer. Our equipment at this point consists of a WoodMizer 40H sawmill, Ford 1900 tractor with forks and 4" cap. chipper, equipment trailer and pickup truck. We live in the northeast and are also interested in learning the going rate for sawing, by the board foot or by the hour or both, basically anything we can learn...thanks for your time, Rick

 

[dooleysm]

I just paid $.25/bdft for custom sawing in southern Indiana. The guy I used had a WoodMizer 40H as well. He also had a large fork truck that easily handled the logs that were a struggle with my 30hp Kubota. So make sure your tractor is big enough to handle the huge logs you're likely to get from time to time.

The guy we used had a nice system of rollers next to his mill so he could slide the chunks from the squaring cuts off onto the rollers, then roll them down the line to a chop saw where his dad was cutting them into firewood length and throwing them off onto a pile.

He had a nice sawdust collection system too, which I would think is a must have.

So basically, there's lots of 'waste' products that you must be prepared to handle. If you can find a market for them, all the better.

Are you planning to be portable or do you want people to bring their logs to you?

 

[Oldtrout]

I owned several timberwolf sawmills,as well as sold them throughout eastern Canada and the USA,These mills were top of the line fully loaded,and competed with woodmizer. I own over 200 acres of woodland,and at the time a 230 timberjack porter,and a massy 50 loader with forks,nyle dry kiln;the best move I ever made was to sell it all except for the woodland. I had one mill set up on my property,and one mill I used to take to various sites to do custom sawing, I soon discovered that many people had no idea what a saw log was,ie small logs,dirty muddy,not straight,full of worm holes,etc. I started charging by the bf,.25 cents a bf. based on what the customer wanted,was usually told that they wanted 2X 6,8,or 10,and 6X6 in other words heavy timbers,but when on the site customer would say he forgot and needed 2000 lin feet of 1X3,and 500 pcs of 2X4 which as you know takes a **** of a lot longer.

Now for the mill that I had set up on my property,we averaged about 2000 bd feet of lumber a day,2 of us me sawing and a helper,of course some days cut 5000 bf if cutting 6X6 and some days way less than 1000 bd feet if quarter sawing hardwood. When it was all figured out at the end of the day I was working for about 5 bucks an hour;and that doesn't take into account the time spent to sharpen bands normally about 2 hours every evening. Than the down turn in the lumber industry,people could actually go to a larger mill and buy lumber for less than what it cost me to cut and get my logs to my mill.

Now its not all bad if you have axcess to good pine logs or good quality hardwood you may be able to make a $ provided you can find a market for your finished product,there are several nich markets out there,just do your homework and get all the info that you can get and good luck

 

[Erik_in_Hoyt]

the one time I used a portable, the guy charged by the hour. I think about $35 or $40. I've seen rates quoted as high as $70 an hour. Easier to figure than board feet and if the buyer wants to get fancy with his cuts you're not losing anything by taking longer to meet his needs for fewer boards cut.

 

[MikeD74T]

I paid .25 per board foot last year to have 3000 ft sawed on my property. The sawyer is a friend but that's his regular rate. We had to work out a rebate because it was going so slow that I had to help him as he had other committments. It made no sense for my to pay full price per board foot while tripling his production. You'll need to factor whether you are doing all the work and/or whether the customer's participation increases/decreases production. Another sawyer I knew, now deceased, charged by the hour and had printed on his invoice that the price was the same with or without customer help, including coffee breaks & chat time.

Are you going mobile or fixed location? If fixed look for revenue for slab, sawdust, etc. Waste can be profitable if properly marketed. MikeD74T

 

[linrick1]

Thanks for the replies all, What I am proposing to do is cut customers wood to their specifications at the customers location. I think at this point there are more opportunities to saw other peoples wood than there would be trying to purchase raw logs and market finished products. Sawing at the customers location also reduces alot of logistical problems and prevents the need to store both raw logs and finished material on our property. I am not opposed to sawing small runs at our place but large jobs would be best done at the customers location as space is tight here (Unless we can purchase the 5 acres abutting ours,then we'd have a ton of room....Fat chance). The mill was purchased new in '95(?) by our neighbor for a project he finished many years ago and has sat idle since.......here are some pics of the mill...thanks again, Rick

 

[KentT]

Have you discovered the Forestry Forum yet?

http://forestryforum.com/

Good place, good people, with a lot of related info that could help.

BTW, my brother owns a similar Wood-Mizer (not sure it's the same model) and made his living for several years doing what you describe....

But, right now, the market for raw lumber is VERY slow and prices have dropped dramatically in the last year or so...

 

[linrick1]

Thanks Kent, I'll check out that link. Like I said earlier, we can use all the info. we can get... I know lumber prices are very low right now but we are hoping that our ability to produce more lumber out of a single log than a circular mill can and our portability might help us to secure jobs....hopefully. I have been laid off for most of the winter and work looks to be pretty slow this coming spring so I am hoping that I might be able to generate some additional income with the mill, enough to be able to take care of my wife and our home. Thanks again, Rick

 

[KentT]

Hope it helps, Rick. Only advice that I could add is that my brother is located in East Tennessee, and he has/had three primary markets that he sold to:

1. Woodworkers and custom finish guys, looking for a specific piece of hardwood or something... for example, he's sawed quite a bit of random-width hardwood flooring -- but that's limited because of the need for the buyer to plane and tongue/groove (or similar joints) the output.

2. Log home/cabin builders looking for rough-sawn board-and-batten (or similar) for finishing gable ends, dormers, etc. on homes/cabins that they were building (there was a real boom in builidng vacation rental cabins in that market for a while, though, it too has slowed down...

3. Guys building their own barns or sheds and looking for both framing material and wall/roof sheathing.

He does custom sawing for people (but only moves his mill there if it is a LARGE job), and often trades his saw bill for a percentage of the lumber, then sells the lumber. He built a covered shed at his own place where he keeps the saw set up most of the time, because when you consider the time spent to move and set up the saw, it is often quicker to haul the logs to the mill than it is to take the mill to the logs. Plus, that gave him the flexibility to mix/match what he was sawing, perhaps from multiple customers/lots, while he had the saw set up a certain way. I have no idea how much he has sawn over the years, but he's put well over 4,000 hours (maybe much higher -- I've lost track) on his Wood-Mizer, and is on his second engine... the first one got him to to about 3,000....

He typically has several thousand BF of lumber sorted, stacked, and air-drying at any given time, so it takes quite a bit of space (he has 40 acres) to run an operation the way he has done it...

Another potential market in the Northeast is timber-framers, but there's not a lot of that construction being done in Tennessee, in comparison...

 

[linrick1]

KentT, I signed up over at Forestry Forum and let me tell you the folks on that board have been extraordinarily helpful..great site, Thanks for the heads up, Rick

 

[MikeD74T]

Rick, There's a lot of information on Forestry Forum but as you read threads look at how few are about marketing their product. Go talk to wood users. Many small shops don't use more than you can produce if you produce what they use. A lot of users want high quality in small sizes that can be delivered in a pickup truck or trailer. I talked to a shop owner this summer that couldn't get what he wanted anywhere. He happened to be visiting relatives & was fishing on my property near a pile of milled lumber & slab. Owns a woodworking shop in PA & uses white pine exclusively. He doesn't use anything over 4' long and as short as 8" in random widths but needs absolutely clear stock. Has one employee full time on a chopsaw roughing material from longer boards. Just think of how many pine trees have 2' clear sections between knots & can be had for free. A WoodMiser shingle attachment will make short boards without taper too. Tree companies often have short lengths of very large trunks, too big for the firewood market, that can be quartered with a chainsaw or split then milled. To get into the best markets you will have to get into some sort of kiln. If you have the room refrigerated box truck bodies are available in many sizes and make a good start on a kiln. Add an outdoor boiler & burn waste for the heat source. Plumb to your house & multiple small batch kilns.
I know a lady that makes cherry jewelry boxes from fallen trees. The semi-decayed cherry has very attractive staining she desires. She bought her own mill as she couldn't get anyone to saw what she wanted.
There's a lot more sawyers cutting good lumber than there are marketing their products for best return. Anybody can make barn boards & pallet stock. Unless you really like making sawdust invest some time in face to face marketing research. MikeD74T

p.s. If you ever get a kiln going I know a specialty flooring producer that will buy small lots of kiln dried hardwood but is continually pestered by sawmill owners that only sell green wood.

 

[linrick1]

Hi Mike, Marketing is definitely an area I have to address. We are not looking to market a finished product so much as our services. I would like to avoid purchasing saw logs and then market the lumber, especially considering the current economy. Our aim is to locate customers who have raw logs on their property that they want sawn to their specifications. At this time we are in the process of rebuilding the mill and have begun to advertise locally to see if we get any leads. We simply do not have the room to set up the mill on our property, much less set up kilns so this will be an issue we will have to address as we proceed. Thanks for your input and please continue with your thoughts on this, thanks, Rick

 

[MikeD74T]

Rick, At .25 per board foot I spent more for a friend to cut my lumber than I could have bought it for at the time. I had blow down logs to clean up & there was a glut at the mills and I had a ball working with him. Right now construction is down but I don't know how that affects your local market. Are other local mills buying logs? This will relate to what someone's willing to pay for custom cutting.

Please don't let me disuade you from your dreams but you're diving into a world where every customer thinks his logs are worth a fortune & your time worth little. I sincerely hope you do well as sawing is truly an enjoyable pastime. MikeD74T