convert a pull-type to 3-point

   / convert a pull-type to 3-point #21  
Sure, you could back it up. You just wouldn't know where it was going to go. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Sorry, I couldn't resist.
 
   / convert a pull-type to 3-point #22  
All I can say.. for you non-believers out there.. is.. whether you like it or not.. At least one manufacturer makes a 3pt mower with a swivel rear wheel(s) that can also be assembled as a pull type mower, using a swinging drawbar, and not the 3pt lower arms. I've physically got my kk 5' manual right her in my lap. The first half the book shows how to assemble it as a 3pt unit.. the second half shows how to assemble it as pull type.

I'm not saying it is ideal.. nor would not have any problems.. I'm saying it is possible.. and kk is case and point.

As for backing.. I think I'd avoid that with a swivel castor ont he rear.. .. I also think they should drill each rear spindle housing and weld a nut to the spindle and provide you with a bolt that would find a recess drilled in the 'spindle shaft', so that you could thread inthe bolt and then 'fix' the rear wheels for easier use in pull mode.. but then.. that would add money to manufacturing.. and the units are economy as it is... So.. I'd guess that is their best compromise product.. it lets them sell tot he majority of buyers.. the 3pt users.. and for the other people with no 3pt.. like some JD, farmalls and olivers/ac's.. etc.. it still lets them sell them a mower.. etc..

As for the casters not tracking.. I've thought on this some more.. and the last time I was at wallmart I had my buddy drive my truck around real slow inthe parking lot, and i sat ont he tail gate and held a shopping cart up on the pal of my hand.. inthe middle of the handle... so that the fixed rear wheels wer up, leavile the swivel wheels in front. The cart was free to pivot and run wild if it wanted to as I was supporting it on an open palm.. trying to simulate a winging drawbar. The cart tracted behind my truck fine.. even around corners and in circles. No hills to try ( which may have a problem.. except that I think you are crazy to mow on hills unless it is up and down.... that's what boom mowers are for.. ).

I encourage the doubters to try the free 5 minute wallmart parking lot test... rear swivel casters DO tract and trail the tow vehicle and do not run nilly-willy ....

Soundguy
 
   / convert a pull-type to 3-point #23  
I don't think the shopping cart example is correct, due to the pair of fixed wheels. It would requre all the wheels to be swivel in order to copy the pull behind with swivel wheels.
A single axle trailer is a good example of something with a center pull, and fixed wheels. Where would the trailer go if it had swivel wheels?
In defense of Soundguy, the caster effect tends to help the bushhog pull straight, but is only good until the limits of physics is reached. What those limits are depends on the angle of the rear wheel, the amount of drag in the bearings, and who knows what else. I think even flat versus a curved surface on the trailing tire would make a difference.
All in all, my vote is on the mower not tracking straight when other forces come into play.
David from jax
 
   / convert a pull-type to 3-point #24  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I don't think the shopping cart example is correct, due to the pair of fixed wheels. It would requre all the wheels to be swivel in order to copy the pull behind with swivel wheels.
)</font>

Rear wheels were not on the ground per my message.. only the front swivel wheels were on the ground.. the cart was being pulled backwards.. I was setting on my tailgate, and was holding the shopping cart handle with 1 hand, in the middle.. flat palmed, so it could rotate.. lifted, so the fixed wheels were off the ground. I can't see how this would -not- be an accurate representation of a mower with a middle/front 'pull' , and 2 rear swivel casters. With the tow vehicle traveling forward.. the 'cart' tracked fine... backing i think would be some sort of polish game.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Soundguy
 
   / convert a pull-type to 3-point #25  
On perfectly flat ground swivel casters would probably work OK but, if you are working on any kind of a slope, and I am not talking about something that is so steep that you risk turning the tractor on it's side, the cutter will tend to want to go to the down hill side. Case in point; When I was at home on the farm we had a 5' rotary cutter that was 3PH. It had the usual swivel caster in the rear. We used it a lot in the fall and spring for chopping corn stalks before plowing. I always liked to use it with swaybars installed so that it would track straight behind the Ford when going up, down and sideways on our rolling ground. The same rolling ground that we plowed, planted, picked corn, baled hay and combined on. Nothing really steep at all. Without the swaybars on the tractor it was not unusual to completely miss one of the two rows I was chopping due to the cutter swaying downhill. This may sound like it was my fault for not paying attention to what I was doing and driving uphill a little to compensate. However, when you are driving at 4 MPH for hours at a time straddling two 1/4 to 1/2 mile long rows of picked corn, your mind tends to wander. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif My dad didn't seem to think that was a good excuse though so my answer was to put the sway bars on. I am only using this example to emphasize the problem that caster wheels on a pull type implement would cause. The 3PH cutter was limited in it's ability to track off line by the limited sway in the 3PH itself. A pull type cutter with caster wheels would have nothing except the tongue to limit it's travel off line and could possibly sway up to 90* off the center line of pull or until it hit the tires of the tractor. I don't think the u-joints in the PTO shaft would like it very much, either. I just do not think a pull type, rear swivel caster cutter would be anything less than totally frustrating to use, the KK manual and WalMart shopping cart example notwithstanding. Just my HO.
 
   / convert a pull-type to 3-point #26  
Soundguy,
I am not trying to start a war with you, so please don't take my "opinions" as an attack on you. Just want to make that clear before I disagree with you.
The shopping cart example with the rear wheels elevated would seem to be a good example, however your wrist would be locked in place in order to hold the weight of the cart. A drawbar would hold the wheels of the cart up, without allowing the locked effect of your wrist. A easy thing to overlook.
Anyone want to drive a single axle trailer down the road with casters for wheels? It just doesn't want to track right, dispite the vehicle following it. (watch a wrecker pull a car without the steering wheel locked, it pulls it sideways down the road)
David from jax
 
   / convert a pull-type to 3-point #27  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( however your wrist would be locked in place in order to hold the weight of the cart. A drawbar would hold the wheels of the cart up, without allowing the locked effect of your wrist )</font>

Flat palmed... like I said... that is.. an open hand...

I'm not trying to 'war' either.. just pointing out that a major mower manufacture does indeed make a product that many here say can't work.

As for hills? I live in florida... closes't thing to hills we have are big ant mounds. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Still.. I do think if I owned the kk unit and used it as pull.. I think I would drill and lock the rear spindle as I detailed earlier.... or backing up would be uselessly difficult. ( though I have noticed that since I got my 10' mower.. I never back up anymore... tractor stays in 5th/high from start till finish.. back when I mowed with a 5' mower.. I was backing up a whole lot.. go figure /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif )

Soundguy
 
   / convert a pull-type to 3-point #28  
With a 10 foot mower, you must have some horsepower in front of you.
Missed the flat palm part, guess I ought to read more.
I would pin the caster wheels also, but i had noticed that part, so I didn't mention it.
No hills up here in North Florida either, but we do have a bridge you can ski on if it snows. (Once in it's lifetime)
Anthills can make quite a dustcloud when your running that fast!
David from jax
 
   / convert a pull-type to 3-point #29  
I've got a ford 5000 and Nh 7610s for the 10' mower.. either can 'overpower' the mower easilly. And yes... anthills make a wonderfull cloud of mad disoriented ants! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Soundguy
 
   / convert a pull-type to 3-point #30  
hehe, you won't catch me pulling a walmart basket in one palm with the wheels up while sitting in the back of my truck. As one person mentioned wheels on a trailer with a center pull are fixed for a reason. To track straight behind the center pull point. With swivels...if you do make a fast turn or get on a slight slope nothing will keep it from swinging into the rear tires. Lets say you make a pass then need to turn around on a gravel or paved driveway? IE and 180 degree turn. One thing about bush hogging, you need to do some turning.

Also what KK manual are you looking at? I downloaded manRKRK.pdf which covers all the KK rotary mowers(including mine). It clearly shows 2 different dual wheel configs. Swivel for 3pt and fixed for pull. It never shows one for both. If I missed it please point it out to me.

Thanks,
Rob
 

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