Converting my dump trailer to the remote on my tractor

[demaree99]

I have a Mahindra 5010 with single remote at the rear of the tractor. I have a 7 x 14 dump trailer with 12,000# capacity, with the battery and it's own pump system that was on the trailer when I bought it. It works perfect for my constuction business and hauling my equipment. I notice that after 4 or 5 dumps the battery becomes weak and won't lift as fast or sometimes not at all till the truck re-charges the battery, or I plug it in over night. My question is since I have alot more dirt to move around the farm and could easily haul 15 to 20 loads on a Sat. how can I bypass the factory installed trailer lift system and put in another hose and use the remote on my tractor to dump the trailer using the tractor's hydro's system and then just remove the hose and go back to the factory dump system ????? I do have a 7-pin hookup on the tractor for trailer lights and brakes and it does have a 12 volt " hot wire " to charge the battery on the trailer like my truck does, but it will never keep up with the amount of dumping I need to do.

 

[jobguy]

I am in the process of doing the same thing you are. My dump trailer hydraulics no longer work. I posted on this site (cannot find the old posts or great replies). So will summarize:
I can use my rear remote to dump. Since I have only power up (one hose on the dump) when I put the remote lever in the opposite position the dump will slowly fall as fluid flows back into the tractor through the neutral setting of the valve. I only use my dump a few time a year.
Some suggested a return line to the tractor reservoir. Another suggested converting the dump cylinder into a two way cylinder with two hoses.
The responses I received were terrific and technical. I will keep looking for those posts and if I can find them will get them to you.

 

[jobguy]

Found the posts at this location:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/154521-enough-fluid-tractor-dump-trailer.html
Let me know what you end up doing please.
Ken

 

[leonz]

I have a Mahindra 5010 with single remote at the rear of the tractor. I have a 7 x 14 dump trailer with 12,000# capacity, with the battery and it's own pump system that was on the trailer when I bought it. It works perfect for my constuction business and hauling my equipment. I notice that after 4 or 5 dumps the battery becomes weak and won't lift as fast or sometimes not at all till the truck re-charges the battery, or I plug it in over night. My question is since I have alot more dirt to move around the farm and could easily haul 15 to 20 loads on a Sat. how can I bypass the factory installed trailer lift system and put in another hose and use the remote on my tractor to dump the trailer using the tractor's hydro's system and then just remove the hose and go back to the factory dump system ????? I do have a 7-pin hookup on the tractor for trailer lights and brakes and it does have a 12 volt " hot wire " to charge the battery on the trailer like my truck does, but it will never keep up with the amount of dumping I need to do.

You may simply need a new deep cycle battery as it may have a bad cell or it is near the end of its usefull life.

I think you do need a new battery though.


I have to disagree with you about the battery being able to keep up with the duty cycle you want to accomplish. The deep cycle battery which is a golf cart battery) on the trailer will handle the load without issues and you will not have to worry.

My single axle Maxxum dump trailer has a Bosch hydraulic pump which is quite common apparently. and I have dumped a lot of white oak block loads
being 4-5 loads in one day with a 40 mile round trip commute with zero issues. if your pump is struggling I would take it out and charge it overnight and have it load tested to check it and then if the battery is good look at replacing the pump.

 

[J_J]

I have a Mahindra 5010 with single remote at the rear of the tractor. I have a 7 x 14 dump trailer with 12,000# capacity, with the battery and it's own pump system that was on the trailer when I bought it. It works perfect for my constuction business and hauling my equipment. I notice that after 4 or 5 dumps the battery becomes weak and won't lift as fast or sometimes not at all till the truck re-charges the battery, or I plug it in over night. My question is since I have alot more dirt to move around the farm and could easily haul 15 to 20 loads on a Sat. how can I bypass the factory installed trailer lift system and put in another hose and use the remote on my tractor to dump the trailer using the tractor's hydro's system and then just remove the hose and go back to the factory dump system ????? I do have a 7-pin hookup on the tractor for trailer lights and brakes and it does have a 12 volt " hot wire " to charge the battery on the trailer like my truck does, but it will never keep up with the amount of dumping I need to do.

I believe you can do what you want by using a long hose from your remote valve by connecting the hose to work port B, and plug work port A port. The long hose would connect to the base end of the dump cyl.

It should dump faster and have more dumping capacity.
You may have to add fluid to the tractor reservoir.

 

[EMB5530]

I borrow a dump trailer from time to time and have noticed that it is full of ATF instead of hydraulic fluid or hy tran so you may want to flush the cylinder before hooking to your tractors system.

 

[J_J]

With the dump cyl retracted, there will not be very much fluid left. If you store the dump trailer with the hose from the tractor, there will be a little fluid in the hose.

You might try swapping out the trailer fluid with the same tractor fluid you are using.

As a side note,

All our Power-Trac's use 10W-40 motor oil as the hyd fluid, and has been working good for about 30 years.

 

[radioman]

wouldnt you save alot of hassle and cost of hydraulic hoses and changing the current setup by just adding a charging circuit from your tractor to trailer to charge? You can go on indefinately this way.

 

[Fixemall]

wouldnt you save alot of hassle and cost of hydraulic hoses and changing the current setup by just adding a charging circuit from your tractor to trailer to charge? You can go on indefinately this way.

That and a deep cycle battery, I hauled and dumped 9 loads of very wet mulch with my dump trailer today without hooking it up to anything and it went up as fast on #9 as it did on #1.
You can also run dual batteries on dump trailers.

 

[demaree99]

You may simply need a new deep cycle battery as it may have a bad cell or it is near the end of its usefull life.

I think you do need a new battery though.


I have to disagree with you about the battery being able to keep up with the duty cycle you want to accomplish. The deep cycle battery which is a golf cart battery) on the trailer will handle the load without issues and you will not have to worry.

My single axle Maxxum dump trailer has a Bosch hydraulic pump which is quite common apparently. and I have dumped a lot of white oak block loads
being 4-5 loads in one day with a 40 mile round trip commute with zero issues. if your pump is struggling I would take it out and charge it overnight and have it load tested to check it and then if the battery is good look at replacing the pump.

 

[Johnbro]

WE also have a 14k dump trailer and what I discovered is that the charger in the trailer is only putting out a couple of amps. So if you deplete the battery (and lifting a heavy load to dump sucks a lot of amps) it will take a long time to recharge. however, your alternator on your tractor can put out 40 amps or so so I would hook the battery from the dump trailer directly to some decent wiring from your tractor, bypassing the built-in charger in the trailer.

I expect they use a trickle charger to avoid 1) paying for a charge controller as part of the cost of the trailer and 2) having people fry the batteries by leaving them plugged in all the time (which I confess I do).

 

[demaree99]

The trailer is less than 6mos old so the battery is not a issue. There is a big difference between " white oak blocks " and 8 to 9 tons of dirt. The heavier the load the bigger the drain. You are also comparing it with a 40 mile round trip between loads with the truck's alternator spinning at full power to re-charge it. I use it during the week to and from the dump and have no problems because of the " trip time " to re-charge. Across my land is only a 10 minute run and will not keep up dumping a 9 ton load. That is why I wanted to by-pass it just while I'm running it on the farm to avoid the battery issue.

 

[demaree99]

Johnbro is right on. Heavy loads really put the " zap " on the battery and quick. Like I said in my post, I have the 12v hot wire that charges the battery in the plug-in on my tractor, but by passing the built-in charger on the trailer might be the best way to go. It's takes way too long between cycles to bring the battery back to peak after dumping numerous heavy loads. I can fill the trailer in 5mins with my bobcat and be back to top shape on the battery. Maybe just a simple by-pass switch to make sure the battery doesn't get damaged and will be ready for normal work on Monday. I have about 4000 yds of dirt to move so it will take some time.

 

[nwngunner]

I have a buddy who has a 3,000 pound normal trailer that he uses for mowers and such. On the tounge of the trailer he placed an old truck tool box. I told him to put a couple of solar chargers into the top of the box, so that his battery can be kept fully charged all year around. He put the winch and battery in the box so no more issues with our iowa winters. How ever, to avoid the redoing all of your hydro lines, i would suggest running a hot wire as well. How ever if you are up for it, get your self a 12volt dc selnoid valve. you only need a two port one. You can run the valve so that when you are powering up the valve is in its open state. then when you want to lower the trailer. You hit a momentary on switch powering the valve while you hit your retract on the remote that lets the pressure off of the trailer and diverts the fluid back in to your 2ed port on your remotes. I hope you can follow.

 

[N8ghz]

What I'd do is get a pair of anderson DC connectors and some welding cable and tap into the battery posts on the trailer with lugs on the welding cable. Then add an anderson connector to the tractor battery posts. Then plug the cables from the trailer into the tractor. That way you'll have 2 batterys and a charging circuit.
You could experiment with this idea, by using a good set of jumper cables ( if they are long enough) first, to see how it works and if it solves the problem?

As far as doing it with the tractor hydraulics, You need to switch fluids in the trailer so it is the same as the tractor. I assume the tralier cylinder(s) are single-acting (gravity down)? So you'd be loosing however much oil it takes to dump full stroke, from the tractors system and returning the oil when lowering. I don't know how your trailer works, but I'd guess it runs it's pump to dump, and then you turn a valve or energize a solenoid to lower? You'd need a directional valve between the tractor and the trailer to raise/lower the cylinder(s).

 

[Fixemall]

How about a power inverter ran off the tractor to a faster charger? Both can be had cheap and should keep up with the cycles.

 

[jinman]

I would not try to run a dump trailer off of a towing vehicle's battery just because that would limit the vehicles that can tow the trailer because they would all have to have high-current wiring. I have a 7' x 12' twin cylinder (double acting) dump trailer. It came with a deep cycle battery and that fresh battery regularly gave me seven dumps with the trailer loaded to its capacity. Depending on how far you are towing, you could recharge the battery from the vehicle. The manufacturer supplied me with the circuit diagram for doing that. If you are doing short hauls and lots of loads, you need two batteries and a charger going constantly on the 'resting' battery to keep up.

To hook the system to the tractor's remote, you need hoses and fittings and a device called a "Shuttle Valve." This one is from Surplus Center. It looks internally like the diagram below. What it does is to allow the source with pressure to power the hydraulics while isolating the other source. This ensures the electric pump/reservoir on the trailer won't have back-pressure and overfill the reservoir if there are slight leaks. The same is true for the tractor. There is no danger of the trailer pump's pressure feeding back and sending fluid to the tractor. This configuration was suggested by the manufacturer of my trailer. I have all the parts sitting in a box in my barn, but have not done the mod yet or I'd show some pictures. It's a simple item to add and has the double value of being a "T" for the circuit in addition to being a shuttle valve.:thumbsup:

 

[Localmotion]

Both Jinman and J J are spot on with their suggestions, and I definately agree that if using your trailer on short hauls with the tractor it makes far more sense to use the tractor auxilary spool valve rather than the battery and pump built into the trailer...

Here is my own suggestion to bypass the trailer pump, but allow easy reconnection if needed:

1 - Disconnect the hose connecting the pump to the Ram at it's connection with the pump (or valve if fitted).

2 - Extend the ram hose (using a join) to ensure there is enough slack to reach the tractor auxilary output.

3 - Install quick fit connectors (same type as on the auxilary output spool of the tractor) - it will most likely be the male connector on the pipe and female connector on the pump or valve.

To use the trailer on the tractor, you can then simply plug the hose into the tractor spool auxilary. Or to use on a different towing vehicle using the battery pump simple coil the spare hose and plug into the trailer pump... Total cost of doing this here would be around €50 (not sure what that is in $ sorry!)

Also make sure you check the trailer oil resivoir, as it will probably need topping up to compensate for the extra length of hose, and as with J J I'd suggest using the same oil in the trailer that you use in your tractor hydraulic system....

Hope this helps :thumbsup: