Cooking oil cheaper than diesel?

[coffeeman]

Just came from Sams Club. Cooking oil about $2.50 a gallon. I would guess Diesel is right around there or maybe a little cheaper. I have seen those stories about people using old cooking oil to run their cars. One guy says his car runs better on old french fry oil rather than diesel. An extra +, his dog likes the smell of his car now. There has to be a lot of cost involved in making cooking oil. Packing in 5 gallon jugs and made in food grade conditions must add a lot to the cost. I would think if cooking oil was transported in 7000 gallon tankers, it should go down to $1.25 a gallon. Add taxes and profit for gas station, would it go up to $2.25?

Some say if we were to use all our grain for bio fuel we still couldn't meet our needs. But as we drive around, how much ground do we see laying fallow? Make the price of grain right and "zillions" of non farmed acres will be planted. Of course the price of bread might go up some, but I'd rather give the profit to our farmers right here. Those folks will spend it right in our states and others here benefit.

There is one big problem with investing in bio fuel, as I see it. If it could be pulled off and demand goes down for oil, then oil prices drop. Then the bio fuel investors take a bath on their investment. They go out of business, and the oil guys get to skin us again. A little government help on taxes would help the farmers. A side light, I hear this cooking oil and ethanol, or whatever it's called, burns very clean.

I know it's not so simple. It's just when I see a 5 gallon package of cooking oil with the big packaging cost sell for near the same as bulk diesel I just wonder.

Cheers...Coffeeman

 

[MadReferee]

Remove the federal 24.4 cent per gallon tax and the state tax which averages about 18-25 cents per gallon from the price of diesel and the diesel now becomes cheaper.

 

[Humbleto]

If a lot of people started buying cooking oil say at 15, 20 or 25 gallons at a time, the price would go up dramatically, not down. It's called supply and demand. The same is true of most commodities, including gasoline.

 

[PineRidge]

Just yesterday I watched the Myth Busters collect old cooking oil from a restaurant strain it and run it in a diesel powered car. Compared to regular diesel the MPG was a bit less but as they said the oil was free.

 

[howlin_wolf]

First off, if you're getting diesel for 2.50/gal consider yourself lucky.....It's over $3 here. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I was just watching the grand opening of a E85 and biodiesel filling station near here on the local cable access channel last night. The wife says there's a place about 10 mins from the house that sells bio-D along with regular and gasoline. Didn't even know it was there.

The gov. was on hand preaching about how Pennsylvania is going to be a pioneer in getting renewable fuels to mainstream and they are going to work with the growers and transporters to make this happen. Says we must be using at least 19% (I'm pretty sure thats what he said) renewable fuels by 2019 and that would translate into X million gallons of foreign oil we aren't buying, just in PA alone. Not that I believe one word these double talking politicians say, but I really hope he goes through with all the bull he's shucking. I would love to see the US wean itself from foreign oil dependence. Wouldn't hurt that more money would be going to people who farm for a living either.

Now the feds have to do something to make sure the auto manufacturers are doing there part to get these flex fuel and hybrid vehicles out on the road. I looked at a Ford Escape hybrid for the wife last year and it was so much more expensive that I could've drove a regular Escape for 5 years before I would've saved a nickel. For some reason we couldn't use the tax break on that model year. Didn't make much sense to me. I could get 0% for 5 years on a bunch of cars, but not the hybrid? Come awn uncle sam........step up and force em to make it the same cost as owning a regular fuel vehicle or give some decent incentives to buy one to offset the cost.

 

[Seon]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Just yesterday I watched the Myth Busters collect old cooking oil from a restaurant strain it and run it in a diesel powered car. Compared to regular diesel the MPG was a bit less but as they said the oil was free. )</font>

With all the work needed to collect and strain clean the oil, I personally don't think it's worth it /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif.

 

[CMunger]

I was at a tractor dealership Monday, and he had just bought some sort of separater. Not sure exactly how it works, but has two tanks and you add two chemicals to the cooking oil (this oil came from a Chinese resturant), one chemical was lye, probably to break down particals, anyway when done he pours directly into his Ford diesel pickup. It is my understanding that no modifacations to the vehical need to be done. He hit the key, engine starts right up, nothing comes out the pipe but hot air. Kind of makes you hungry if you stand there and smell it for a while
Also, another factor(Horror Story) that I here from the trucking industry is that a 2007 EPA rule requires that a new truck, say with a Cat engine will have an additional $15,000.00
added to the sticker price for smog equipment, like a catalitic converter and other additions they may take up so much room and weight they may onlt be able to mount one fuel tank instead of two

 

[jimg]

I saw that too. I was surprised no treatment was necessary and I wonder what the long term effect on the engine and its various parts would be.

 

[coffeeman]

Hi there H Guy

Good point, that supply and demand thing. Somewhere I remember something about economies of mass production. Might have been in that same class on supply and demand. Many believe buying thousands of gallons of oil in 5 gallon jugs is big demand. My thought is millions of gallons delivered in bulk tanker loads. But there's that darn supply and demand thing. How could increased demand for any product lower the price? You know, it's called supply and demand. The bigger the demand the bigger the price. It seems like yesterday that I bought my Apple IIe. I think I paid about $2400.00 for it. Gee, with adjustments for inflation that good old computer would be worth 10Gs or more today. (I still have it. Anyone want to buy it?) But today, we can buy a good computer with 512 mg ram for $299. I think it might even be better than that Apple. I guess many will say, "Hey the new computer is made in China or some other cheap place." But, there is no doubt in my mind, that computer could be made in the states for 5 or 6 hundred. Thus, mass production sometime can lower price; for various reasons. I live in a vast country: the good old USA. Also, I don't want to hear this crap on how all the other countries are passing up our kids in school. I think too many underestimate the resourcefulness of Americans when their backs are against the wall. When the time comes we will get er done. I see signs folks are already on the move. One mentioned here about Pa and a new bio fuel station sarting this week. And...of course, there are many places all over the US selling bio. Many flex fuel vehicles are on the road now.

Just some thoughts for discussion. No offense intended to anyone.

Cheers....Coffeeman

 

[Joe1]

I too have questions about long term effects on using cooking oil. Some of it's bound to blow by the rings, and I wonder if it would have a negative impact on the oil in the crankcase. I can't imagine it would stand up to any kind of heavy duty use.

I wonder if it would tend to congeal. What would it be like in cold weather? Will it solidify at or below freezing? Used cooking oil at home will turn to lard when cold.

What impact will if have on the injectors and the injector pump? Does it have sufficient lubrication value?

What is the cetane rating? The Myth busters reported about a 10% loss in mileage on the old Mercedes they used it in. The energy is lower than equivalent diesel fuel so HP would probably drop by 10 % as well.

How can one be certain that what ever has been cooked in it did not also polute that oil to the point where it can't be just filtered, such as fried chicken getting chicken fat in with the oil. Cooking oil is also used at extremely high temperatures. Does that impact on its value as a motor fuel?

Can this oil be mixed with diesel oil in a fuel tank or is a separate tank required for each fuel?

Will the engine be able to be started on cooking oil on a cold day or does it need to be started on diesel and the engine switched to cooking oil when the engine is warmed up? Are we, therefore, looking at dual fuel engines with dual tanks and all that extra expense.

What kind of deposits will this stuff leave inside the engine as it burns?

What does the the EPA say about this? Will only oils used to cook non-animal foods be treated differently than for oil cooking meat? In other words, can french fry oil be used but not KFC oil? Is this going to create a whold new set of environmental red tape to drown consumers in?

Will we find ourselves buying dyed cooking oil for off road use and clear cooking oil for highway use? How long before Uncle Sugar starts taxing it as a motor fuel?

I think a lot of serious, professional research needs to be done before we all just start burning this waste cooking oil in our expensive diesel engines.

Short term, many engines will "run" on many "fuels", but the long term impact is unknown.

Case in point: In th early 1970's while on active duty with the Navy, the ship supplied fuel for bird farms (Aircraft Carriers), so we had lots of JP-4 and JP-5 but little diesel fuel. We ran our ships boats on JP-4 and or JP-5 instead of diesel. They ran fine, but the effect on these marine 6-71 and 8-71 engines was (according to the Enginemen and the Engineering Officers) a shorter life for the engines due to less lubricating effect than from Diesel.

I'm going to wait a few years before I start burning this stuff in my diesel.