corn for ethanol good or bad idea?

[MikePA]

You would know, I certainly know when I'm "Just driving for the sake of just driving."

Parkways, NY and CT, (probably other states too) are reserved for passenger cars, which does not include high occupancy passenger vehicles such as buses.

With gas prices what they are, I doubt anyone is driving for the sake of driving and if they are, that's their business.

Local regulators could change how lanes on parkways/turnpikes are used.

 

[MossRoad]

Corn for Ethanol - Good
Corn for food - Good

Provided a balance can be maintained in supply and demand without outside influences.

So, it will never happen, in our markets and government.

Therefore, Corn for Ethanol - bad.

When was the last time you saw a sidewalk put in?
How about a rail line?
How about an airport?
A new shipyard?
How about a new road?

Think about it!

I saw new sidewalks yesterday. Wider than the last one and further away from the road.

New rail lines are planned for our commuter train between here and Chicago.

Our airport recently stole, ah, err, bought 400 houses for an expansion.

No ship yards here in corn country although we are getting another steel plant.

Drove on a new road yesterday.

I can see our local 20+ year old ethenol plant from the highway. It appears to be idle as they are waiting for the corn to grow. Ethenol from corn is a bad idea because it takes too much energy to convert it. We would be better off converting our cars to burn natural gas and burning corn to heat our homes. We need to abandon liquid fuels.

 

[radman1]

A study released by an economist at the Univ. of Nebraska last month, says that 40% of the increase in the price of corn was because of ethanol production. The rest was other factors - drought, world shortage, market speculation etc. With the price of corn 2x compared to last year, this resulted in a 3% increase in the price of food in the US. Therefore, he says that ethanol resulted in a direct increase in the price of food by 1.2%. It is ludicruous to say the price of food in the US has increased significantly because of ethanol. Although corn is the raw ingredient in many foods, the cost of proscessing, trucking, retail etc adds much more to the price of food that a doubling of the price of corn.
I would like to see a study stating what the price of a gallon of gasoline would be without the billions of gallons of ethanol. Would gasoline be 50 cents more per gallon?
The american farmer was doing poorly on $1.80 bushel of corn for the past several years. The price of corn 30-40 years ago was probably better than that.
The high price of corn will soon have a significant effect on meat cost. The consumer hasn't seen it yet but it is coming. Cattle, hog, and chicken production is having losses in all areas. They cant afford the price of corn. Average hog has a loss currently of $15-30/hog slaughtered. Production will have to be cut and many growers are getting out or stopping. I predict the price of meat will significantly increase in the next 6 months.

 

[MossRoad]

...It may be way to late for us to resurrect a dying freight and passenger rail system....but it may not.

We visited D.C. last week and rode the subway/trains there. They are very efficient, fast, clean and cheap! Now go to Chicago and ride their trains. YUK! D.C. should be the model that all commuter systems should be based on in large cities.

 

[czechsonofagun]

We visited D.C. last week and rode the subway/trains there. They are very efficient, fast, clean and cheap! Now go to Chicago and ride their trains. YUK! D.C. should be the model that all commuter systems should be based on in large cities.

You are absolutely right. DC Metro is great, almost as good as Prague

UrbanRail.Net > Europe > Czech Republic > Prague (Praha) Metro

 

[N80]

A study released by an economist at the Univ. of Nebraska last month, says that 40% of the increase in the price of corn was because of ethanol production. The rest was other factors - drought, world shortage, market speculation etc. With the price of corn 2x compared to last year, this resulted in a 3% increase in the price of food in the US. Therefore, he says that ethanol resulted in a direct increase in the price of food by 1.2%. It is ludicruous to say the price of food in the US has increased significantly because of ethanol.

Man that sounds like the kind of stats and logic that economists always use to tell us we really have more money than what we know is in our pocket! His conclusions sound hollow to me. First, how is he defining food? Does that mean everything you find on a store shelf like candy, canned beans, beer, or does it mean the stuff we need and actually spend our money on like meat, bread and milk? I suspect the percentages are higher for that sort of product.

Second, 1.2% sounds like too much too me if the energy gain is a wash or a loss. Why pay more for our food to get no net benefit at the pump? And floods, droughts and all that are a fact of life that will always be with us. When those things jack food prices that last 1.2% can be the traw that broke the camel's back.

Third, this ball just started rolling. If we continue down this path it will get worse. Fertilizer prices will go up and all other ag markets will be affected. So if its 1.2% this year, what about next year, and the next? Maybe that economist can give us one of those predictions they are so (in)famous for!

But what would we expect from an economist from Nebraska?

Kind of like the Washington vs Saudi bickering that's going on now. We blame them for the high prices due to them limiting production, they blame us for the high prices because of the ignorant way we buy and sell oil....a.ka.a. speculation/futures markets. Wonder who's right?

 

[Reg]

There was something on the radio last week about the post Katrina rebuild.
Low income/low skill people will be living in one place, the only jobs they will be able to get are mostly at another place. The cost of gas is too high already for many of them to commute to work by car, the town (or county, I don't remember exactly which) is putting in bike paths as part of the re-building program.

 

[radman1]

Man that sounds like the kind of stats and logic that economists always use to tell us we really have more money than what we know is in our pocket! His conclusions sound hollow to me. First, how is he defining food? Does that mean everything you find on a store shelf like candy, canned beans, beer, or does it mean the stuff we need and actually spend our money on like meat, bread and milk? I suspect the percentages are higher for that sort of product.

Second, 1.2% sounds like too much too me if the energy gain is a wash or a loss. Why pay more for our food to get no net benefit at the pump? And floods, droughts and all that are a fact of life that will always be with us. When those things jack food prices that last 1.2% can be the traw that broke the camel's back.

Third, this ball just started rolling. If we continue down this path it will get worse. Fertilizer prices will go up and all other ag markets will be affected. So if its 1.2% this year, what about next year, and the next? Maybe that economist can give us one of those predictions they are so (in)famous for!

But what would we expect from an economist from Nebraska?

Kind of like the Washington vs Saudi bickering that's going on now. We blame them for the high prices due to them limiting production, they blame us for the high prices because of the ignorant way we buy and sell oil....a.ka.a. speculation/futures markets. Wonder who's right?

The study is still in progress and was based on all food products, including bread, meat etc. In the US, we are fortunate that a relatively small part of income is used toward food compared to poor countries that have a large proportion of income used toward food. If the price of corn stabilizes, then the % increase next year could be potentially smaller or even 0 if all other factors remain the same. Cost of living adjustment was about 4% last year depending on the month. The amount added due to increase in food price is small. COLA this year maybe 5% or higher and it will probably be in large part due to energy.
Many recent articles in the newspaper on a large lobby firm in DC which is being paid on behalf of the food industry millions of $ this year to begin marketing against ethanol. Why? Because their profit margins are decreasing due to the increase in corn, soybeans and wheat prices. Yes, ethanol plays a role but it is far from the major factor in the increase in US food prices. Wheat and soybeans have also doubled in price compared past 1-2 years. They certainly aren't used in ethanol. It is a worldwide shortage in multiple commodities. Ethanol is an easy excuse since it is about the only significant factor that has changed in the US farming economy in the past few years.

Your worried about a 1.2% rise in food cost? Stop eating out and eat at home. I had dinner with 4 people 2 nights ago. Decent restaurant, nothing extravagant. Bill was $72, no tip. I would guess, if the dinner was in my house, total for actual consumables may be $15-20?

I don't believe that corn is the ultimate answer. Switchgrass or other sources will be developed and efficiencies will increase. A few years ago, corn was a resonable choice but to predict this much of a swing was not forseen. Ethanol plants can't afford to pay this price either.

 

[Egon]

Ethanol is really the answer! Produce enough and insure everyone has to imbibe at a certain rate per day and no vehicles should be driven. This halts all the transportation systems and we go back to square one! ehh!

 

[tommu56]

My Question is how many btu's do you put in to get a btu out????

I have the same Question for biodiesel?

I think it would be more effichent to burn the corn in stoves and save the conversionm to liquid.

I did read switch grass would make more fuel but I'm not sure were i read it.

tommu