Tx Jim
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Please explain difference between controlling hyd valve via clutch pedal vs hyd shuttle control. Kubota engineers stated operation of foot clutch pedal wasn't required for a reason!
Correct use of shuttle shifter
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Sportsman762
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With a power shuttle there is no need to clutch as the tractor does it for you. However the power shuttle is harder on the clutch packs than using the foot clutch to feather the clutch in and out. Its not that you need to clutch, it just reduces wear on equipment. The key with using the power shuttle is to shift to neutral and shift the opposite direction once the tractor has stopped, if you can lower engine rpm's it also helps. Putting the tractor in reverse without stopping is very hard on the clutch packs.
The reason that wheel loaders and backhoes use torque converters is to dampen the force of power shuttles that is transmitted to the clutch packs. With an ag tractor this is not done due to the need to put a higher percent of power to the ground for long directions during ground engaging activities such as plowing. This is why ag tractors like a little more love when changing directions than a backhoe.
To sum it up you can use a power shuttle without clutching, but clutching (and lowering engine RPM's) extends the life of clutch packs.
The reason that wheel loaders and backhoes use torque converters is to dampen the force of power shuttles that is transmitted to the clutch packs. With an ag tractor this is not done due to the need to put a higher percent of power to the ground for long directions during ground engaging activities such as plowing. This is why ag tractors like a little more love when changing directions than a backhoe.
To sum it up you can use a power shuttle without clutching, but clutching (and lowering engine RPM's) extends the life of clutch packs.
I always thought throttling down to idle was a given for changing from f-r not to mention halting momentum in whatever direction you were headed in first. compared to others I'm fairly new to using a hydraulic clutch I shift to neutral a lot without clutching when I'm in close quarters instead of clutching and than putting it in neutral, is that hard on the clutch packs as well? Id hate to prematurely wear out my 4150. Although the tractor itself already looks pretty worn out lol.
JONNY BOYYYE
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no you don't as long as you let off on the throttle or foot feedWell for fwd reverse anyway still need to clutch to shift gears
5030
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Why I like my M9's there is NO clutch in the bellhousing, just a damper plate to reduce the shock of going from forward to reverse above an idle speed. All the 'clutching' if you want to call it that is controlled hydraulically with a proportioning valve in the main transmission case. Last time I checked the lockup pressure on the valve last spring at 6000 hours on the one, it was right on spec in the workshop manual and the other with 4000 hours was just a tad low but I didn't bother adjusting it either.
Never had any noticeable change in operations of the units either and I do a lot of forward and reverse motions with the engine rpm up as well. As a rule other than starting out, I use the clutch pedal to initiate forward or reverse motion but when roading especially, I float the main gears without using the clutch pedal at all. That comes from decades of driving big trucks where you never use the clutch except when stopping and starting out again. I really like not having a dry clutch in the tractors as I'll never have to have them spilt to replace it as it don't exist. I believe my M9's have a synchromesh first gear however and both of mine are 12 x 12's. with the creep speeds installed though I hardly ever use them.
I believe the newer Kubota's with the hydraulic shuttles use the same system I have in my getting ancient M9's. It is a very user friendly system too and it requires very little maintenance as the main transmission fluid also bathes the hydraulic clutch packs as well as the brakes and I have a lot of fluid in the main cases. They both hold just under 15 gallons of fluid and of course they both have oil coolers mounted up front as well. With mine, the clutch pedal is optional actually. I do everything with the column mounted shuttle lever except coming to a complete stop and even then I'll just put the lever in neutral to stop the tractors. Like I said with mine, the shuttle is proportional, that is, it will gradually apply the clutch packs if the engine rpm is up so it don't jerk you and it's load sensing as well so if I am pulling a load like a round bailer loaded, it will automatically do a graduated engagement of the wet clutch pack to avoid any jerky starts. Really nice when round bailing hay. The wet clutch packs are quite robust as well. Too bad the PTO brake pack isn't. I have to be very careful with that and if any implement I have on the back don't have a built in over running clutch, I have to add one on the PTO stub. Neither of my shredders have an over running clutch so I just add one when I use them. Everything else including my round bailer does.
The weak pto clutch pack on the M9's was a bad design in as much as the PTO brake was only a 2 plate affair but I believe Kubota addressed that with later models.
I never want to have to replace the PTO clutch pack either. You can plainly see it if you remove the back cover plate (that mounts the PTO stub and gearing and while you can see it, it's not reachable and the units have to be split to replace it. I can look at it but not touch it at all. Why I'm real careful about using an over running coupler, don't want to destroy that pack ever.
Never had any noticeable change in operations of the units either and I do a lot of forward and reverse motions with the engine rpm up as well. As a rule other than starting out, I use the clutch pedal to initiate forward or reverse motion but when roading especially, I float the main gears without using the clutch pedal at all. That comes from decades of driving big trucks where you never use the clutch except when stopping and starting out again. I really like not having a dry clutch in the tractors as I'll never have to have them spilt to replace it as it don't exist. I believe my M9's have a synchromesh first gear however and both of mine are 12 x 12's. with the creep speeds installed though I hardly ever use them.
I believe the newer Kubota's with the hydraulic shuttles use the same system I have in my getting ancient M9's. It is a very user friendly system too and it requires very little maintenance as the main transmission fluid also bathes the hydraulic clutch packs as well as the brakes and I have a lot of fluid in the main cases. They both hold just under 15 gallons of fluid and of course they both have oil coolers mounted up front as well. With mine, the clutch pedal is optional actually. I do everything with the column mounted shuttle lever except coming to a complete stop and even then I'll just put the lever in neutral to stop the tractors. Like I said with mine, the shuttle is proportional, that is, it will gradually apply the clutch packs if the engine rpm is up so it don't jerk you and it's load sensing as well so if I am pulling a load like a round bailer loaded, it will automatically do a graduated engagement of the wet clutch pack to avoid any jerky starts. Really nice when round bailing hay. The wet clutch packs are quite robust as well. Too bad the PTO brake pack isn't. I have to be very careful with that and if any implement I have on the back don't have a built in over running clutch, I have to add one on the PTO stub. Neither of my shredders have an over running clutch so I just add one when I use them. Everything else including my round bailer does.
The weak pto clutch pack on the M9's was a bad design in as much as the PTO brake was only a 2 plate affair but I believe Kubota addressed that with later models.
I never want to have to replace the PTO clutch pack either. You can plainly see it if you remove the back cover plate (that mounts the PTO stub and gearing and while you can see it, it's not reachable and the units have to be split to replace it. I can look at it but not touch it at all. Why I'm real careful about using an over running coupler, don't want to destroy that pack ever.
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5030
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I don't and never have. No need to, let the hydraulic clutch pack do the thinking. You ain't gonna wear it out unless you really abuse it. besides, the built in hydraulic proportioning valve modulates the the clutch lockup according the engine RPM and sensed load. What it's designed to do.
m5040
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So if your using a rotary cutter (bush hog), with the engine RPM up to the 540 PTO speed, it is still safe to fwd/rev without the clutch pedal?(repeatedly, for hours, all day etc) Has anyone done this for a substantial time?
5030
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I do that all the time and do it with my round bailer as well. The clutch pack is modulated by the proportioning valve and it determines the lock up interval. The main reason why I like the hydraulic shuttle as much as I do.
I'd say other than a few owners on here, not many will approach the hours I have on mine and like I said, so far no issues and checking the pack pressure tells me it's all good inside there. I'd like to see 10,000 hours on them without any issues. I'd say I'll have engine issues before anything else.
I will say I don't run either shredder I own, I have a flat back LP and a bat wing LP at 540, I don't have to as I have more than enough grunt to run them at less pto speed. I actually run them at just over 1/2 throttle. In fact, if I'm not too lazy to change the flip shaft pto to the 1000 rpm stub, I'll run them at less than half speed which equates to 540 on the 1000 21 spine stub that I have a 21 to 6 spine coupler on.
Normally if I'm running my grain leg I have the 21 spline stub installed as my grain leg is a 1000 rpm drive.
The tachs on both my M's are marked for both the 6 spline rpm as well as the 21 spline stub.
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LouNY
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I have power shuttle transmissions and power shift transmissions with reversers.
I run them about the same to change directions I will move the control to neutral while I use my brakes to stop my travel as I stop I'll be moving my shuttle lever to the desired direction. Some times depending upon what I am doing I may reduce the engine rpm while slowing some times not, the shuttle control or reverser control will modulate and control the clutch pak engagement.
The only reason to use the brakes is to reduce the wear on the forward and reverse clutch paks, it is not required for operation but I feel better about and so I do.
I run them about the same to change directions I will move the control to neutral while I use my brakes to stop my travel as I stop I'll be moving my shuttle lever to the desired direction. Some times depending upon what I am doing I may reduce the engine rpm while slowing some times not, the shuttle control or reverser control will modulate and control the clutch pak engagement.
The only reason to use the brakes is to reduce the wear on the forward and reverse clutch paks, it is not required for operation but I feel better about and so I do.