Counterweight

[Anonymous Poster]

I am new to the world of compact utility tractors; I've only had mine for 9 months. I have been concerned about tipping the tractor, and after reading an article in yesterday's news, I am more concerned than ever. When a FEL is removed will it be necessary to install suitcase weights in order to compensate? Will there always be enough torque generated that any practial counterweight can be overcome? I am assuming that the farmer's tractor probably had well over 100 hp. The article can be read at http://www.msnbc.com/local/WHEC/65321.asp or am I over-reacting?

 

[Bird]

Tom, it's a shame when things like that happen, and it happens to the older experienced folks as often as to the novices I think. The article doesn't provide much detail or information, but says he was trying to pull a plow out of grass with a chain. Doesn't say where he had the chain attached to the tractor. Most tractor manuals say to only pull from the drawbar. I'm sure a lot of us don't always heed that advice, but if you don't know for sure what you're doing, you sure want to have any chain attached below the centerline of the rear axle or you run the risk of the tractor rearing and going over backwards. Weights on the front end may help, but won't prevent that from happening. That article also said the tractor rolled; don't know whether it reared up (chain attached too high on the tractor) or turned over sideways (pulling from the wrong angle). I would also bet that he had no ROPS and seat belt (or at the very least was not wearing a seat belt). I think the best thing you can do is just stay scared of that tractor; I know I am. That way maybe we'll be careful enough to not get hurt.

Bird

 

[W5FL]

Don't know what kind of tractor you have. A ROPS (roll bar) would have prevented the death you saw in the MSN paper. Pulling from the drawbar instead of the axle or 3 point would also have prevented the accident.

No matter how hard you pull from the draw bar, the front end will press into the ground instead of rare up. The drawbar is always below the rear axle, where the 3 point IS NOT.

I leave the loader on all the time and sometimes remove the bucket if mowing to get a little more clearance during turns. Other things really help the stability of tractors. The easiest accomplished is filling the rear tires with water/antifreeze (non/toxic) and/or adding rear wheel weights. Seldom is counterweight needed on the front unless you are using larger rear implements than are normally recommended for your tractor. In that case the Loader or front weights are needed to keep enough weight on the front wheels for proper steering. Enough counterweigh in/on the rear wheels or a heavy implement (box blade) usually provided sufficient counterweight with the tire ballast for safe loader operation.

Slopes present another safety issue that has been covered pretty well in this forum. It is sufficient to say don't go sideways on slopes that feel uncomfortable. Straight up and down is much safer.

Another extreme danger is a tractor whose tires are frozen to the ice on the ground. If you give it power to go ahead and the front end breaks loose, the tractor will be standing upside down on the ROPS in a second. If you go backwards, your changes are much better.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I agree that a ROPS probably would have prevented this incident. I suspect that any of us could up-end our tractor if we were attempting to pull some thing that didn't want to move. As more and more power is applied, the wind-up torque can become considerable. What happems when the object suddenly breaks free and there is no longer force on the draw-bar? An up-ended tractor? Such as this accident, where the plow didn't want to move, initially (I am obviously making an assumption here)? Seems that this could happen if we were attempting to tow a felled tree and it snags and then suddenly breaks free as more power is applied. You can't let your guard down for a split second.

 

[W5FL]

Nope, pulling from the drawbar is safe. Pulling an implement with the 3 point down is safe. I regularly pull over 4000# of dirt and box blade. I have gotten in the position of ALL 4 tires slipping (front diff locked and rear diff locked) with NO instability to the tractor. I have over 7500# on the ground plus the 4000# behind the tractor. Kinda foolish to try that with a 1500# tractor, but if properly set up and coupled to the load, the tires would just slip.

 

[Bird]

Tom, when an object suddenly breaks free, the tractor will just jump forward a bit; no problem. The problem is before it breaks free. I have a neighbor with 5 old tractors, none of which have ROPS or seat belts, and a few years ago, while dragging a big pipe (crossways, of course) in the pasture to smooth it and scatter the manure after chisel plowing, he had the chain hooked to the 3-point and the 3-point raised. The pipe hung, the tractor reared up, and he fell of behind it. And the only thing that saved him was the fact that the engine died and the tractor fell back forward instead of coming on over onto him.

Bird

 

[W5FL]

Bird,

That is how I smoothed my pasture after planting the coastal. Used an 8 foot 4.5 inch pipe with chains tied to the 3 point. It was in the LOWEST position. The biggest concern I had for the geometry was being sure the chain could not hang on a rear wheel and bring that pipe up on a wheel. That would not be a good thing to have happen.

 

[MChalkley]

That's a scary story that you related, Bird, no doubt about it. And it can happen to anybody who's not being careful. One time you do something like that, you "accidentally" live to tell about it, and another time, you don't. Need I mention that with an HST transmission, if you for any reason stop pushing the pedal (like if you fall off or scare yourself witless when the tractor rears up) the tractor will just slowly lower itself to all four wheels again?

I routinely get to the point when pulling trees that all four tires just spin, even though I've easily got more than double the traction my tractor had stock. So if anyone runs the risk of flipping the tractor from traction, it's me. But, as Wen mentioned, there's no instability at all when I'm pulling from the drawbar. However, one caveat that probably shouldn't even need to be said, but it's best not to take anything for granted in the area of safety: Make sure the chain, cable, strap, rope, whatever, extends directly from the drawbar to the object you're pulling. I had a helper pulling chain for me one day and it was toward the end of the day and we were all tired, so he accidentally ran the chain over the top of the rear blade instead of under it and I didn't notice it. So when I pulled forward and the chain tightened, the tractor almost instantly reared up on me. It was time to knock off for the day anyway... /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

And, again, I'll second Bird's comments about the effect of something you're pulling suddenly releasing. You might get a little jolt when the tractor lurches forward, but that's all. What you have to worry about is the object you're pulling suddenly getting hung up on something. Then you could be in for a nasty ride.

Mark

 

[Bird]

Yep, Wen, that's just what this neighbor uses, only he welded railroad spikes along one side of the pipe so he can pull it with the smooth side of the pipe down, or he can turn it over and pull it with those spikes down. But I'll bet he doesn't attach it to the 3-point again.

And Mark, that's just one reason folks like us like that HST so well; SAFETY!

Bird

 

[W5FL]

Although I agree with the safety aspects of the HST, if you are running at full throttle on an HST (4th, 5th or 6th gear on my tractor) and you hung a chain tied above the rear axle, you would be setting on your head dangling from your seatbelt before the tractor speed got back down to idle, regardless of where your foot was. It all happens too fast. That is why safety rules have to be followed as there is no time to react. The inertia is too high.

Whether you will turn over or break a chain is a simple calculation. The restoring moment of the tractor better be higher than the breaking tension of the chain and it's distance above the rear axle.