cracked axle housing

[Anonymous Poster]

Well said scruffy,
Kubota's have alot of aluminum parts and most of the time feel "just don't cut it" However the number of repairs I've done, due to guys learning the "feel" does provide good job security. Experience is usually something you gain right after you need it......

 

[TomG]

Well, I won't entirely let this go. I understand what is being said and agree that it applies to most people including myself. I don't think there is disagreement here. If I depended on my 'feel' than I, as well as most other people, would deserve a poor professional reputation.

I just wanted to say that some people are blessed with gifts that defy definition. I've played percussion for singers who have it. They fly with their voice while I only ever laboured with my vocals. They had a gift, and I was just happy to be along for the ride. I'd say exactly the same about the person with a dozer who can create an almost perfect grade in no time at all. Something I don't understand, but sure appreciate watching.

The person I worked for held a BSA franchise for over 20 years. He was pretty professional. However, if he was as good a businessman as a mechanic, he would have recognized what was happening to British bikes and taken on the Japanese franchises that were offered.

We measured, he laughed; and, he was always right. Under real repair conditions, I have a suspicion that his feel was closer to specs than our measurements. I believe he had a gift that I, or anybody who lacked it, could never understand. I wouldn't be comfortable defining in my own terms what his feel was capable of discerning. I don't think my terms are up to it.

 

[Bird]

Scruffy, I certainly agree. If I do repair work for other people and charge them for it, I want it to be exact, but I've never been employed as a mechanic, and have only limited experience with major repairs; just grew up doing most of my own maintenance since my Dad owned a service station and auto parts store. How many mechanics have you seen use a torque wrench to do brake work, change a fan belt, water pump, radiator, battery, install spark plugs, etc., etc.? I've noticed in the last several years that a number of tire stores have torque wrenches. They run the lugs on with an impact wrench first, then get the torque wrench to see if they're tight enough. I've yet to see one use the torque wrench properly.

Bird

 

[TomG]

Yep, me too. I'd add bearing caps to my list of torque wrench things. Sometimes it's surprising what works tho. When I finished military tech school in Biloxi, I caught a ride to Colorado with a barracks mate who was going on to California. The day before leaving, I saw him working on his Corvette, which was parked in the street. He had the heads off for reasons I don't remember. He starts putting the heads back on, tightening from one end to the other. Then, he puts a pipe on the handle of his ratchet wrench for more leverage. Gee, I says, aren't you supposed to use a torque wrench and a tightening sequence? Naw, he says, this is good enough and I don't have time. At least he did take the time to set the valve clearances. Some people just have no sense of danger. Guess he was used to getting by on his good looks.

Well, I figured we'd blow a head gasket somewhere north of Amarillo and I'd die of exposure or something, but we pulled into Denver without incident. Don't know what happened after that. You know with all this torquing talk, I'm starting to get an image of a tightening sequence diagram for 40's Mercury flat head. Sure were fun, those.

 

[Rowski]

Bird,

I find over torgued wheels all the time, either form warped rotors, broken or stretched threads, to cracked alloy rims. With that said I always use a torque wrench for checking wheel lugs. What I do (I find works really well) is use my impact to snug up the lugs, in star or criss-cross pattern, then use the torque wrench. My impact is an IR #231. It has a feature that work well for the lugs. The push-pull switch for forward and reverse can be set so you have full torque for removal but slide the switch over for tightening and it is at a low torque (50 to 70 ft lbs). Obviously this depends on the pressure at the gun. I do not use the low torque setting only, I recheck with a torque wrench. By the way another reason for not over tightening a wheel lug nut is so if the customer gets a flat he/she can break them loose and change the tire.

That IR impact is the best dang impact! I’ve had it for 8 years and gets used daily. Never been rebuilt! We had a technician here who only used Snap-On impacts, he went about 1.5 years before needing replacement.

Derek

 

[Bird]

Derek, you and I agree 100% on that one. My own impact is an IR231 that my brother took in on trade because it was broke. I rebuilt it with used parts, so it works just like new, and I have no doubt it'll outlast me. I think among professional mechanics, and especially tire shops, it's probably the most popular 1/2" impact around, so I do work on a lot of them simply because there are so many in service. The good part is that parts are relatively cheap, and they're real easy to work on (as long as you know that at least half the time you have to heat the housing to get the air motor out). It's not unusual for me to get one that's broken badly because a mechanic tried to work on it himself, couldn't get the motor out, and tried until he broke it. And about the only reason I ever get one to work on is because the owner failed to use air tool oil and/or never greased it (a lot of them don't even know that dimple in the back is a grease fitting).

But I'd say you are most unusual if you turn the regulator down like you say. You're doing it right./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif But I'm afraid most folks just leave it on full power all the time. And with a 425 ft./lb. rating, you can sure over torque lug bolts.

And if that other technician had a Snap-On IM5100, he has my sympathy./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird

 

[paccorti]

This is a real pet peeve of mine. I rotated the tires on my car recently. I kid you not. I applied every last ounce of my strength to get those stupid lug nuts off. I have no way of measuring it but I wouldn't be surprised if it was 250 ft lbs or more. The specs call for 55 to 75 ft lbs.

I think a good torque wrench makes all the difference. I just got a Husky 1/2" model. It has two good features. 1st, it has a ratching mechanism that is as useful as any other ratchet wrench. 2nd, the wrench registers the desired torque by feel. It clicks. So you don't have to look at it. It dosen't get any easier than that.

Peter

 

[Bird]

Peter, I like that type of torque wrench if I'm going to use one, but as far as I know, all the brands require periodic re-calibration or they may not be very accurate after awhile. Did yours come with instructions or information to that effect? And I sympathize with your lug nut problem. Several years ago when I bought a new set of tires, the guy doing the installation twisted one of my lug bolts completely off. And as I mentioned above, the most popular impact wrench in tire shops seems to be the IR231 (or Matco MT1739, MAC AW234, Cornwell IRC231, etc. that are the same thing; just made by Ingersoll for the other companies) which is capable of an ultimate 425 ft./lbs., which is great for taking them off, and also great for putting them on if they'd do it right, like Derek, but not so good at full power like a lot of them do./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Bird

 

[TomG]

I think there's a mistake and some confusion going on here. Does anybody here really know the relationship between torque wrench settings and true specs in repair settings? I mean, if torque wrenches are so all important in doing professional work, then you'd expect to see mechanics in good shops all walking around with torque wrenches in their back pockets. I don't know, but that's not what I see. The original discussion raised the question whether torque wrench settings were reliable in typical repair settings. I don't think that question was resolved.

I also don't think I've ever heard tightening up an engine described in term similar to doing an engine tune-up. And, I'm not sure if over-tight lug nuts makes a case for using a torque wrench or using a garage that doesn't employ idiots with impact wrenches.

My father and most of his friends were A&E mechanics (that is, trained and licensed to work on aircraft). I tried to find a torque wrench when I was a kid. I can tell you that neither my father nor his friends had torque wrenches among their personal tools. I believe that in shops, torque wrenches mostly have limited application in bench re-assemblies. I can see another application, however. Torque wrenches would be pretty good for keeping the semi-trained and barely employable from doing too much damage.

I think I've made it clear in the past that this idea would include me. I used them. The really good people I knew didn't have much need for them. Even in the interests of aggressive geniality of this board, I just can't let the suggestion stand that you can't be a professional mechanic without using a torque wrench on every bolt. In my experience, it's really the other way.

 

[Bird]

TomG, I agree with you that most mechanics do NOT use a torque wrench for MOST jobs, but I do think most GOOD mechanics use them on a few things like head bolts, and while I think they are seldom used for lug bolts, I think it's a very good idea to use them for that.

Now as for aircraft mechanics, I don't know a lot, but for the short time I was commander of our helicopter section, we had 3 licensed aircraft mechanics, and BELIEVE ME, they used torque wrenches on those helicopters REGULARLY!

Bird