Cracked engine block!!!

[Ifixcars]

I'm sold on the lock n stitch after viewing thier website. Looks like a good repair if done correctly. Can be done in frame if the crack is accessable. Nice. Thanks for posting that Alan. I will keep that site in mind for my next crack repair.

 

[yellowandbeige]

Wow,
I'm sure you will come out on top in this matter but what a headache to deal with.
What this says to me is go out and check high stress areas and load bearing areas frequently! Might have been an easy fix if caught soon enough.
Keep us informed.
Y&B

 

[AlanB]

Funny.. back on post# 14 I mention stitching.. nobody says 'boo' about it. Jump ahead to post # 32.. and it's a 'new' idea...

Soundguy

Well soundguy, don't know what I have done to offend you, but hey, I thought you were referring too the standard type of stitching I had seen where you thread holes, use normal bolts, and weld it back together.

If you were referring to the Lock-n-stitch product that I mentioned, wish you had been a bit more specific.

And I re-read my post and just must be missing where I said it was a "new" idea.

 

[john_bud]

I weld cast iron a couple of times every month.We modify and repair iron molds and dies all the time.I would rather replace them with new tooling but that is not a economical solution for my customers.If you can weld steel you can weld cast iron.The biggest problem when welding cast iron is opening up internal gas pockets.When this happens the crack or hole gets bigger.A Lincoln or Miller welder will do the job nothing fancy.Use the highest nickel content welding rods you can find.Set the machine 50-70 amp. neg.DC and practice.I learned how one weekend and had not used a welder in 20+ years.Most of the other posters had good points and I am going to watch the video some day.Speaking from my own experience and I have welded engine blocks.The quality of the iron,the cleanliness and removing the stress points are critical. I say stitch weld it and it should outlast the rest of the engine.I am not trying to be disrepectful in any way to anybody.Oh yeah I also recall the Brits refer to your rear as a bum.

Bama,

I tried to do some crack repair on a transmission housing a couple years ago and was very un-sucessful. (very) One thing that was happening was the casting would erupt a shooting star - just like a spark that you see when grinding. It would fly out 2-3 feet and burst sort of like a firework. No sound of course. It would do this in the areas that were cracked but also in virgin areas of the casting that were ground down to bare metal.

Can you explain what was going on there, I've always wanted to know!

jb

 

[DieselPower]

Well soundguy, don't know what I have done to offend you, but hey, I thought you were referring too the standard type of stitching I had seen where you thread holes, use normal bolts, and weld it back together.

If you were referring to the Lock-n-stitch product that I mentioned, wish you had been a bit more specific.

And I re-read my post and just must be missing where I said it was a "new" idea.

Soundguy shouldn't feel to bad. I mentioned pins and butterfly's shortly after him in post #18, but like him I didn't mention any details. I just figured everyone knew what pinning and butterfly's were.

As far as the Lock-N-Stitch system goes, it works great. I bought all the tools a few years ago and have used it a couple of times. I even repaired a large hole in a diesel race engine block once where a rod tried to escape.

 

[DieselPower]

Bama,

I tried to do some crack repair on a transmission housing a couple years ago and was very un-sucessful. (very) One thing that was happening was the casting would erupt a shooting star - just like a spark that you see when grinding. It would fly out 2-3 feet and burst sort of like a firework. No sound of course. It would do this in the areas that were cracked but also in virgin areas of the casting that were ground down to bare metal.

Can you explain what was going on there, I've always wanted to know!

jb

Sounds like either contamination or a air pocket in the metal. Did you preheat the repair area before welding? Cast should be preheated to about 1000 degrees F before welding. This burns off most contamination that could not be easily cleaned and also prevents other cracks from forming due to the high heat of welding. Welding cast when cold usually leads to poor welds that fail.

 

[kenmac]

Bama,

I tried to do some crack repair on a transmission housing a couple years ago and was very un-sucessful. (very) One thing that was happening was the casting would erupt a shooting star - just like a spark that you see when grinding. It would fly out 2-3 feet and burst sort of like a firework. No sound of course. It would do this in the areas that were cracked but also in virgin areas of the casting that were ground down to bare metal.

Can you explain what was going on there, I've always wanted to know!

Mabe bad cast iron .Some of the cast iron that comes from china ,etc is not the same cast iron that comes from some of the devloped countries. Some of the cast iron that comes from china , etc, have other matals such as alum. and what ever else that can find to put in it. It's hard to tell without looking at the casting what may have been it .

 

[Outlander]

Sounds like either contamination or a air pocket in the metal. Did you preheat the repair area before welding? Cast should be preheated to about 1000 degrees F before welding. This burns off most contamination that could not be easily cleaned and also prevents other cracks from forming due to the high heat of welding. Welding cast when cold usually leads to poor welds that fail.

Yes, the preheat is essential. It relieves the stress and cleans the area. You have to set up an array of torches and preheat the area until it's red. Then go in with high nickel rod and fill. My Dad used to do this for drag racers and it worked perfectly. I remember one Olds block he did that had the entire bell housing broken off. The preheat on that was interesting. Been a while but I think there were six large torches in the array. He also insisted on grinding a V into the crack before starting. I think his biggest concern was the very real possibility of tributary cracks that tended to show up during the preheat. If they are there you shut down and grind them out and start over. No offense to anyone but this is a job for a certified welder that can look at it and tell you with certainty if it is do-able or if you have scrap iron......Won't be cheap either.

 

[bamatoolmaker]

Bama,

I tried to do some crack repair on a transmission housing a couple years ago and was very un-sucessful. (very) One thing that was happening was the casting would erupt a shooting star - just like a spark that you see when grinding. It would fly out 2-3 feet and burst sort of like a firework. No sound of course. It would do this in the areas that were cracked but also in virgin areas of the casting that were ground down to bare metal.

Can you explain what was going on there, I've always wanted to know!

jb

Are you sure it was Iron?What you are describing sounds like magnesium.Ductile iron does contain some magnesium but it should not concentrate in a particular area.If it is an import casting from China,India or Mexico those folks will melt and pour anything they can sell.Do any of you folks remember the radioactive aluminum that we were importing from Russia about 15 years ago?

 

[cp1969]

I would thing you'd have lit magnesium on fire if you tried to weld it with an arc welder.

Could the shooting star have been carbon? That's what makes sparks when grinding ferrous metal, isn't it? Cast iron has a high percentage of carbon.

I'm no expert on welding anything but I have worked with some people who are...engineers from Ohio State which has a very good welding engineering program. The word I got from them when I broke a cast iron housing was that not only it had to be uniformly preheated, but it also had to have a very slow cool-down period after the welding. And then, don't count on it for much.

 

[john_bud]

Are you sure it was Iron?What you are describing sounds like magnesium.Ductile iron does contain some magnesium but it should not concentrate in a particular area.If it is an import casting from China,India or Mexico those folks will melt and pour anything they can sell.Do any of you folks remember the radioactive aluminum that we were importing from Russia about 15 years ago?

Oh, It was iron all right, and not that uncertain stuff from the far east! 1963 Ford Cast iron transmission housing. It did the sparky star deal in areas that were cracked while grinding and also in areas that were uncracked. I found a replacement for it for $75, but did try and fix it. Unsuccessfully.

The differential housing was also cracked, and I didn't even try to fix it. After the debacle with the transmission and seeing that it had at least 6 cracks that were non-obvious along with the big ugly obvious one.

Here's a link to some pictures of the cracks. You can see that they were previously repaired and re-cracked.





No big deal, but I was wondering....

jb

 

[gemini5362]

I would thing you'd have lit magnesium on fire if you tried to weld it with an arc welder.

Could the shooting star have been carbon? That's what makes sparks when grinding ferrous metal, isn't it? Cast iron has a high percentage of carbon.

I'm no expert on welding anything but I have worked with some people who are...engineers from Ohio State which has a very good welding engineering program. The word I got from them when I broke a cast iron housing was that not only it had to be uniformly preheated, but it also had to have a very slow cool-down period after the welding. And then, don't count on it for much.

I broke a cast iron door on my wood stove and the welders where I worked at told me to bring it in and they would weld it. They basically did the same thing. They preheated it with torches and then after welding wrapped it in CERWOOL (high temp insulation) to allow it to gradually cool down.

 

[Soundguy]

Well soundguy, don't know what I have done to offend you, .

Nothing that I'm aware of. I don't recall posting anything that said you did?!?

If you were referring to the Lock-n-stitch product that I mentioned, wish you had been a bit more specific..

Well i would have.. if 'discussion' had started occuring after my original post. Since , as I said.. no one said 'boo' about it.. i let it drop.. seems no one was interested... then 19 posts later.. all of a sudden.. it's the hot topic.

And I re-read my post and just must be missing where I said it was a "new" idea.

Again.. i never said that you said that you were posting a new idea. it's just that when i poste the comment back in the thread, there was -0- interest. later on it is mentioned again.. and blossoms.. 'like' a new concept.

That was my entire point. As I said... 'funny'.. nothing more.

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

I didn't feel bad.. it was funny. It's like that tv comercial where a bunch of 'suits' are at a meeting trying to solve a problem. The guy at the end of the table pops an idea out.. no one even stops talking. then a few minutes later.. another guy at the front of the table says the exact same thing.. and waves his hand a bit.. and everyone jumps up and claps... like I said.. i found it funny.

Soundguy

Soundguy shouldn't feel to bad. I mentioned pins and butterfly's shortly after him in post #18, but like him I didn't mention any details. I just figured everyone knew what pinning and butterfly's were.

.

 

[Egon]

You Betcha:

The pins are for to hold the butterfly to the display board!

 

[flusher]

I have a NH 1630 w/ FEL. I was using it today and saw some oil under it. After closer inspection I noticed that the block is cracked. Probably happened because of the front weights I put on (and never took off) when I skid logs using my rear grapple. All to bouncing cracked to engine supports that eventually cracked the block. I believe it can be welded. Does anyone have and experience in doing this? What type of wire or rod shoudl be used? If welding does not work is there a place to get a short block for this tractor?

Thanks,
Joe

Gee, that's a real nasty engine block crack. I assume the cracked bracket is for the front weights.

I wonder how common this type of cracking is. As I understand it, almost all tractors under say 150 hp are variations on the classic frameless design and for that reason could fall victim to this kind of cracking. Any tractors in the utility/CUT classes have frames? Anybody out there have experience with this type of problem?

 

[RobJ]

If your mind is made up to sell it then i'd still patch it with JB Weld (to stop the oil leak only), maybe weld or braze in place, shore up the brackets and put it on the market as is. If you replace the block you'll probably spend a bundle and still have a used tractor with a replaced block. that alone might keep some buyers away or want to lower your sales price. But take your replacement cost off the top then you might have a tractor that a light user (like me) would be interested in because of the savings.

In other words if the tractor is worth $5000 in uncracked condition, then you put $1000 in it to fix the crack it's not going to be worth $6000. But if you put it up for $4000 as is (somewhat fixed), you might attract more attention and save the trouble of replacing the block.

OK so it makes some sense to me...

 

[jpbear]

Just an update. I decided to order a new block. That seemed like to best route to go. Spent the last couple weeks taking to tractor apart. It was a lot of fun except for the cold weather. Managed to get everything apart just as the new block came in. We welded up the frame, one end was completely broken through and the other was just barely hanging on. Got it square and parrallel so all the holes would line up. Put the engine back together with new ring, bearings etc. I measured all the important dimension on the crankshaft, pistons etc and they were all good. Everything went back together really well. I fired it up last night and seems well. No leaks which is good. No extra nuts, bolts or parts. Now I have to put the loader on for the snow we are finally getting. Thanks for all your previous input. TBN is a great site.

Joe

 

[Egon]

Good show.

 

[gemini5362]

Inquiring minds want to know did you try welding the old block just to see if you could ?