Crawl space encapsulation?

[ddbackhoe]

ddbackhoe, thanks. Necessary is the mother of invention. No need to work any harder than necessary.

One of my associates was putting up a modular and I did the excavation work. Turns out he was a micro manager and was trying to cut pennies everywhere. When backfilling the foundation. I told him we need to place gravel and a vapor barrier inside and he refused. He set the house before calling for his foundation final, guess what failed Then he wants me to do it for free because I should have told him :scratchchin: Since all we had was foundation (open and close), rough grade and septic in writing, thats all we performed. Bad enough having to fix our mistakes for free, I dont fix yours for free. He was smokin when they had to cut me a check before the house could be transferred.
L- shaped foundation 34 w x 60 l x 3.5 tall with the crawl opening at one far corner, bet he would have liked your sled rig :laughing:

 

[RalphVa]

Our crawl space used to get muddy but never had standing water in it. Had it encapsulated. Stuff is virtually like a swimming pool liner. It'll work as long as you do not have standing water. If you do, you need to stop the water or to maybe install a sump pump in the lowest area similar to what many do in basements that always get wet, e.g. a sump pump basin in the wettest corner.

This has been our wettest year and 2nd wettest since we've lived here. No problems in the crawl space. We did have to put in a couple fans under there to blow the crawl space air towards the equipment room where you enter the crawl space. Tried a dehumidifier in the crawl space. Would never catch up. Have a dehumidifier in the equipment room. It catches up. Was down to 40% this morning. Similarly need a fan on timer in the pool equipment area underneath one part of the house. Otherwise, it will rust anything metal there. Can't beat moving air to cut down on humidity.

Ralph

 

[Budweiser John]

One of my associates was putting up a modular and I did the excavation work. Turns out he was a micro manager and was trying to cut pennies everywhere. When backfilling the foundation. I told him we need to place gravel and a vapor barrier inside and he refused. He set the house before calling for his foundation final, guess what failed Then he wants me to do it for free because I should have told him :scratchchin: Since all we had was foundation (open and close), rough grade and septic in writing, thats all we performed. Bad enough having to fix our mistakes for free, I dont fix yours for free. He was smokin when they had to cut me a check before the house could be transferred.
L- shaped foundation 34 w x 60 l x 3.5 tall with the crawl opening at one far corner, bet he would have liked your sled rig :laughing:

After almost 30 years in the building/remodeling game I loved the work but hated the business especially the clients who want to help, buy their own materials,manage the project, or God forbid do the final painting.
I once had a client who bought a package vacation home and had it erected on a Lake Michigan lot in upper Michigan. He asked me if I would be willing to go up state and do all the interior trim and cabinets and of course I accepted the job and priced it based on published costs and assuming a typical unoccupied new build.
After driving for three hours, and finding the location, I put the key in the door, and opened it to find a virtual sea of already installed emerald green wall to wall carpeting. Talk about getting the cart before the horse.

B. John

 

[ultrarunner]

I was with you up to the painting...

My remodel guys love it when the homeowner wants to paint...

 

[4570Man]

Most people lack the ability to paint. I don’t hang drywall either so at least they don’t make my work look like crap. And I agree with not working for people that want to manage the whole project but don’t know squat about building. Those are the worst.

 

[Budweiser John]

A bad paint job cam make good work look second rate.

B. John

 

[rScotty]

A little history behind the house (as I've been told), the house was moved here in '93, and then was renovated in '17. I know the foundation has been here for 25 years. The house sets on the highest point of my property. I'm being literal when I say all I have to do is dig down 12" to get to bed rock. I have a place outside(water cutoff in a underground box, box sets on top of solid rock) and when it rains heavy, the box is full of water to the top. So, I believe some of the water is seeping through the block and some actually just coming up through the ground. I climbed under the house a few months ago to move TV lines for the wife and found the standing water, so I know this has been going on for years, I trenched to the lowest point of the house and added a French drain. I will try to get some pics this evening if I get off work in time. Should I open my vents? I closed them to keep pipes from freezing.

This isn't difficult. I had to do it to my house when a nearby creek flooded and the ground saturation changed permanently.
At first I put in sump pits and pumped for years but that wasn't the answer and also cost a lot in worn out pumps. Plus it was always kinda wet under the house.

The solution was two french drain systems. I trenched all 4 sides inside the foundation down to the level of the foundation and installed a continuous french drain on the inside of the foundation. Then I connected the inside french drain to a similar french drain dug around the OUTSIDE of the foundation .... but about a foot lower everywhere than the inside drain. The way it works is the lowest point of the inside french drain flows into the outside french drain which at its lowest point is then connected by a plastic underground pipe about 3 feet deep that empties into a pond a hundred feet away and downhill from the house.

All of the french drain is 4" perforated plastic pipe surrounded by an inch of gravel which is wrapped in geotextile cloth to keep the fines out of the gravel. There is a constant slope of between one and two degrees on the entire french drain and also on the pipe to the pond.

It took a month of shovel work, but not much money; now gravity drains everything around the house into the pond. It drains constantly all year around. I did add a couple of PVC "WYE" plastic clean outs where the french drains tie into the pipe going to the pond - but haven't needed to use them. And I put in a plastic sump pit about half way so that I can open the lid and check that water is flowing. All the material is from Home Depot.
luck, rScotty

 

[ultrarunner]

A bad paint job cam make good work look second rate.

B. John

But the homeowner almost always loves the work they do... I have seen so many peel and stick tiles and decorating where I had to bit my tongue… but it is all in the eyes of the beholder...

Not to get too far off... only 1 in a 100 tenants really knows how to paint... I have seen too many tenant paint jobs of bubble gum pink with the light switches, outlets, etc.. all painted or latex over oil... what a disaster!

 

[4570Man]

It’s not a rocket science activity but I’ve seen a lot of really bad paint jobs. I’d say your 100–1 ratio is right.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Most people lack the ability to paint. I don’t hang drywall either so at least they don’t make my work look like crap. And I agree with not working for people that want to manage the whole project but don’t know squat about building. Those are the worst.

One of the worse painters i knew, called himself a pro. He talked a good game, but was a lazy sorry painter.

 

[s219]

Most people lack the ability to paint.

I had to convince my wife of that over and over. One time she and some sisters painted a room and it was so bad I had to leave before I said something mean. I looked at that for years and had heartburn. I can do an OK job painting if I focus on it, plus my brother was a painter for many years and taught me a few tricks. But it's hard work for me to make it look perfect so I don't enjoy it. When we built our new home the painters were awesome and made it look easy. They also had lots of good tools, many ladders, scaffolding, etc, which typical homeowners lack and can't afford to rent. That finally convinced my wife of the value of a good painter.

The sad thing about the painters is that they were always dealing with someone else's mess, whether it was dust or some other contaminant or issue. And weather was a factor too. I think they were the most under-appreciated sub contractor on the whole project but I made sure to let them know we appreciated their efforts. Some of the best money we spent on the project was on paint work.

 

[s219]

Back to topic, we have an encapsulated crawl and I love it. It's conditioned with the same HVAC as the rest of the house and stays nice and dry. I use it as a warehouse of sorts, storing all kinds of stuff down there. It's about 60% as good as having a basement. One corner of the crawl is 7' tall and we had a slab poured on that end.

The only issue to be aware of is that the liner material puts out a strong plastic smell for at least a year. If you've ever smelled a new pool liner, you'll recognize the odor. If the walls are insulated with foam, that stinks too. You may notice the odors creep into the house depending on if/how the HVAC and venting is setup and under certain weather conditions which change pressure and temperature gradients. It eventually settled down, and I don't notice anything now.

 

[Gomer pyle]

I've been out of pocket for a little while. I had a couple more companies come look at my crawl space. Both companies stated that it was not as bad as I had described to them. I've decided to trench the perimeter, add 3" of pea gravel (a local mulch company can blow it in), tie everything into my French drain, and put down new moisture barrier. I am also planning to install two fans with humistats (not sure of the spelling), the fans come on when the humidity level reaches 50%. When the weather breaks, I'm going to put some fans under the house to try and dry everything out.
I'm really interested in a full encapsulation but can't justify the cost right now.

 

[rScotty]

I've been out of pocket for a little while. I had a couple more companies come look at my crawl space. Both companies stated that it was not as bad as I had described to them. I've decided to trench the perimeter, add 3" of pea gravel (a local mulch company can blow it in), tie everything into my French drain, and put down new moisture barrier. I am also planning to install two fans with humistats (not sure of the spelling), the fans come on when the humidity level reaches 50%. When the weather breaks, I'm going to put some fans under the house to try and dry everything out.
I'm really interested in a full encapsulation but can't justify the cost right now.

There are many different ways to design a trench drain. I'm an engineer and have done several of these. Even the best way is still inexpensive and uses parts from good ol' Home Depot. Dig the trench and line it with a 3 foot wide roll of their porous goetextile cloth, lay the perforated pipe in the bottom of the trench but on top of the cloth, backfill with your three inches of pea gravel, fold the sides of the cloth over the pea gravel, and then backfill with dirt. Be sure to maintain some slope to the pipe so that the pipe can carry the collected water on out to a low spot to let the collected water spill out and drain ..... into a creek or a sump pit is fine. Doing it that way is very little extra expense, and it will move a lot more water away from the foundation.
good luck, rScotty

 

[Gomer pyle]

I haven't been on in a while. Had some surgery and threw my back out working under the house. LOL. I started trenching under the house myself, I just couldn't afford to pay their prices and after reading the post on here I fell confident I can do it myself. I have one side trenched, I just need to remove a few more rocks and roots on the drain end and I'll be ready to lay my pipe. We're having record rain fall here in TN, so I've been checking underneath even when I can't work. The center has no more standing water but the trench looks like a river(thus the rocks and roots I mentioned need to be removed to lower the trench at the positive drain). I feel like I'm on the right track.
I did a lot of research and since my floors have insulation, I either need to remove the insulation and continue using my crawl space vents or I need to encapsulate it and dehumidify. The insulation is holding the humid moisture against the wood which is giving me the high moisture numbers. Checking myself, my joist are at 12% and the crawl space itself fluctuates but right now is at 96%!!! I found crawlspacerepair.com and am going to order everything to encapsulate myself and dehumidify(everything for around $2500).
One question, can I use a Hiliti gun to nail the plastic to the walls? I know it's made to nail into solid concrete but I'm worried about busting the block???

 

[s219]

For my crawl, they shot the foam sheets to the block wall with a Hilti gun.

In the past when I have shot studs/etc into a block wall with a Hilti, I'd always aim for the mortar joints (what I was taught). But I know when the guys shot the foam sheets to the block wall in my foundation, there is no way they were aiming for joints. Couldn't have known where the joints were with a big sheet of foam in the way. I never did see what size/type nails they used. But there didn't seem to be any issues.