Move to Wisconsin! I spend about 7-800 in propane for hot water, dryer, cooking and heat from September 30th to March 30th. (Wood heat) I have less than $50 in AC bill this year so far. Actually, much less as I only had to turn it on 5 or 6 days this summer.
Crazy Geo-Thermal Idea
- Thread starter afish
- Start date
- Views: 5249
Move to Wisconsin! I spend about 7-800 in propane for hot water, dryer, cooking and heat from September 30th to March 30th. (Wood heat) I have less than $50 in AC bill this year so far. Actually, much less as I only had to turn it on 5 or 6 days this summer.
The anaerobic digestion would be my main concern as well. As far as it being code to keep the systems separate I dont really see why, neither one is ment for human digestion. If the loop did get a leak what is the difference between it leaking in the ground or into a tank and then going out to the field. Either way I would not worry about that happening to much. I'm not sure what the life span of the pex is but I'm pretty sure it will outlast me. As far as the cold water that goes down the drain affecting it negatively the cold water that goes down the drain is the same water that they would use in a open loop system if not warmer from sitting in the storage tank (well water) and the plumbing lines in the basement. My basement is 2 degrees warmer in the winter than the rest of the house with the basement heating zone turned off.
Yes I've seen the grey water heat collector before. If memory serves correctly it was a piece that replaced a vertical section of the main stack pipe. If I'm correct it doesn't seem like it would work very well because the water would be rushing by so fast it wouldn't have time to extract the maximum amount of energy.
Obviously this would not work for everyone and end the energy crises. Someone living in southern calf. has different needs than me as far as heating and cooling goes. But I buy about 1000 (2.35 per gallon this year) gallons of propane a year for heating my home and water.
A separate tank in the basement to hold the gray water before being discharged might not be bad idea either. That way you dont have to worry about the poopsickle and the tank would be sitting in a nice cozy 70 degree basement. I just dont know if there would be enough water generated a day to make a big enough impact.
Yes I've seen the grey water heat collector before. If memory serves correctly it was a piece that replaced a vertical section of the main stack pipe. If I'm correct it doesn't seem like it would work very well because the water would be rushing by so fast it wouldn't have time to extract the maximum amount of energy.
Obviously this would not work for everyone and end the energy crises. Someone living in southern calf. has different needs than me as far as heating and cooling goes. But I buy about 1000 (2.35 per gallon this year) gallons of propane a year for heating my home and water.
A separate tank in the basement to hold the gray water before being discharged might not be bad idea either. That way you dont have to worry about the poopsickle and the tank would be sitting in a nice cozy 70 degree basement. I just dont know if there would be enough water generated a day to make a big enough impact.
Bill Barrett
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2006
- Messages
- 670
- Location
- midwest
- Tractor
- Kubota L3130, Satoh G650, Case 580, Case 446
Here is a good site. Question was asked.
Enviro-Tech: Geothermal Technology Clean Energy Renewable Energy Systems
Enviro-Tech: Geothermal Technology Clean Energy Renewable Energy Systems
excelagator
Gold Member
I think the idea is useable. What if you ran line in the top end of the poop tank. This way you would claim the heat in the upper part of the tank? This would not "cool" the lower end of the tank. Maybe one has done this because either it has not been done or very dangerous.
If you are spending time in a live tank watch out for .... and Methane inhalation. Too much of it will kill you quick. I spent and hour (in and out) hanging upside in our septic unclogging a one of the pipes. It was not fun!
I remember a article on Farm Show where a guy ran 300 foot of drainage tile (flexible stuff) in the ground. He went down 8 feet. one end was hooked up to his high efficient gas furnace and the other end was his air intake. The drain tile preheated the air or colded it depending on the season. He took a reading over 2 or 3 years and saved about $300 a year. Now mine you this guy in Canada too!
If you are spending time in a live tank watch out for .... and Methane inhalation. Too much of it will kill you quick. I spent and hour (in and out) hanging upside in our septic unclogging a one of the pipes. It was not fun!
I remember a article on Farm Show where a guy ran 300 foot of drainage tile (flexible stuff) in the ground. He went down 8 feet. one end was hooked up to his high efficient gas furnace and the other end was his air intake. The drain tile preheated the air or colded it depending on the season. He took a reading over 2 or 3 years and saved about $300 a year. Now mine you this guy in Canada too!
charlz
Elite Member
I've read about people doing this for greenhouses. The biggest problem was condensation and the resulting mold etc. in the pipes.
excelagator
Gold Member
There are automotive AC duct coating treatments that will prevent mold. High efficiency furnace build up alot of condensation internally and at the exhaust side. so I am sure there is mold in mine!
excelagator
Gold Member
My father lost his class ring in a grass pile when I was kid. The pile was 2 feet man there was alot of heat in there!
I think you could used insulation board over the top and the side to retain the heat.
ampsucker
Platinum Member
man, you guys are stealing my ideas!
i was going to suggest looping the pex under a large compost pile. if you have a big yard with lots of leaves and grass clippings, free pre-heating in the winter. plus, you'll have a great garden the other months!
how about capturing the methane from the septic's anaerobic digestion and using that to fuel a small pre-heater?
another good source of heat are all the fridge and freezer compressors running all the time in every house. going to an externally mounted compressor and condensor for all the freezers and fridges (like super markets use) could also provide a good source of preheat. i think that would be more useful than the small amount of hot water.
our hot water fuel bill uses only about 9-13 therms during the summer months (only hot water is gas) compared to the 100-200 therms additional during winter to heat the house with the gas furnace. so 5-10% savings if you could somehow capture ALL the wasted heat. i think the payback on this would be way too long to make it worthwhile.
that's the problem with most of these projects. if everybody did them, it could save a lot of energy, but it's not cost effective for the individual.
amp
i was going to suggest looping the pex under a large compost pile. if you have a big yard with lots of leaves and grass clippings, free pre-heating in the winter. plus, you'll have a great garden the other months!
how about capturing the methane from the septic's anaerobic digestion and using that to fuel a small pre-heater?
another good source of heat are all the fridge and freezer compressors running all the time in every house. going to an externally mounted compressor and condensor for all the freezers and fridges (like super markets use) could also provide a good source of preheat. i think that would be more useful than the small amount of hot water.
our hot water fuel bill uses only about 9-13 therms during the summer months (only hot water is gas) compared to the 100-200 therms additional during winter to heat the house with the gas furnace. so 5-10% savings if you could somehow capture ALL the wasted heat. i think the payback on this would be way too long to make it worthwhile.
that's the problem with most of these projects. if everybody did them, it could save a lot of energy, but it's not cost effective for the individual.
amp
Matt_Jr
Platinum Member
How about raising geese and plucking their feathers and filling your attics with them.
Seriously-anyone heard of a stirling engine? Google "stirling engines". You could use several that are powered by the sun(engines mounted on the roof) to turn another to make cold air. Put one cylinder in the house the other cylinder outside. FREE HEAT AND A/C. To change the heat to a/c just spin the engine the opposite direction. Then a fan powered by yet another stirling engine can move air through the ducting, and a thermostat operates a flap that regulates the temperature in the house and voila-free heat and a/c. Stirling engines are cool.
. Seriously-anyone heard of a stirling engine? Google "stirling engines". You could use several that are powered by the sun(engines mounted on the roof) to turn another to make cold air. Put one cylinder in the house the other cylinder outside. FREE HEAT AND A/C. To change the heat to a/c just spin the engine the opposite direction. Then a fan powered by yet another stirling engine can move air through the ducting, and a thermostat operates a flap that regulates the temperature in the house and voila-free heat and a/c. Stirling engines are cool
.jdmar
Gold Member
Good link...I guess that answers the question although I am surprised the sytem could cool a septic that much. I have thought of putting a shallower loop (2-3 feet only) since I have muck soil which is extremely high in organic material. I have not seen it freeze more than an inch or two down--and then only in spots. I think the constant slow decompostion keeps it "warm." I understand that deep ground stays about 55 degrees in this area...but I wonder if muck soil is hotter. Maybe I should rig some sort of thermometer at 2-4-6 feet this winter and test out the theory. Muck is sort of like a huge compost pile with topsoil thrown in for good luck. Anyone have experience with this soil type?
Peter
Peter