Creek/spring/erosion thoughts?

[Fuddy1952]

On my place I have a nice spring that empties into a spring fed creek. Creek starts about 2000ft. upstream from spring.
Last Fall I put in a crossing at spring so now it's not so steep driving over that then crossing creek. Also, we put in about 50ft. of 8" PVC pipe, so about 10ft. down to a Y at spring, 40ft. under new road.
Yesterday I capped off the Y and spring filled up overnight. There's about 3ft. red clay packed over pipe for road.
Problem is the one side has erosion...not real bad (yet). We've had loads of rain...when it dries out I want 1-2 tandem loads of rip rap delivered for there and creek crossing. (Creek crossing 2-3ft. then crusher run on top).
My thought is new road-spring crossing is using steel T posts 3-4 ft in ground about 3ft spaced, wire fence strip (so 2-3ft) along them then stone.
Sorry for the long rambling post, hoping pictures will explain. Any advice, changes, thoughts appreciated.
First two pictures show start of and other end of spring. Next 3 are outlet of overflow PVC and erosion. Last two is where it fords creek near spring.

 

[1010]

Until it dries out I wouldn't worry much. Rock is what you need for the overtopping period. Hay would just wash away. There is a product with straw weaved into it with line similar to a fishing net. We use it on steep slopes where we repaired a wash until grass can become established. The straw weave has big metal u shaped staples that hold it in place so the wind doesn't get under it. It's wonderful stuff but not good for a road with traffic on it.
We use rolls that are 8 foot wide and probably 75 feet long. It's not heavy one person can carry it and it can be cut easily and rolled overlapping the last run.
I'd start with one tandem truck of rip rap, it covers quicker than you think.. I'd cover the top also with rip rap (90 pound) and use rail road rock (4inch) on top of that. Everybody calls the rock different names. 90 pound rock is a little bigger than a foot ball on average, and up to a basketball.
That 4inch stuff is great for roads, we have even used it on primitive boat ramps, once it's packed down it's there, even wave action doesn't bother it to bad. But it is ruff at first and can be like marbles on slopes if it's laid deeper/thicker than 5-6 inches, but it will settle down too after some time and traffic.

Good luck..

 

[RedNeckRacin]

It looks like you could use an outlet structure and some rock armoring. Don't bother with the t posts and the fencing. That sounds like a sure way to make a mess. An outlet structure would give you a controlled release rate as the area fills up.

Maybe I am getting ahead of myself, what are you actually trying to accomolish? I get the part about fixing the erosion, but impounding the water and not giving it an outlet is going to possibly keep giving you problems.

 

[Fuddy1952]

Maybe pictures and drawings will explain better. The way it was is I had to drive down a steep pasture then cross creek then go uphill about 10-15 feet up to another pasture that's fairly level.
Driving down the steep pasture when I got within maybe 100 ft. from creek there was a spring to my right...very deep over time, two HUGE maple trees at start then down 20 feet or so to a rock bottom, spring flowed into creek in a ditch about 5-10ft wide, about 15ft deep.
First drawing is areal view of how it was. A dirt road...creek shown as blue.

 

[Fuddy1952]

IF you look sideways, this is how it was, steep down to creek.

 

[Fuddy1952]

Now again...top "areal" view of how it is now. Drive the other side of spring isn't so steep, turn left going across dam, then right to cross creek. Dam makes it less steep driving as well as a reservoir for the spring. Spring has an overflow going under dam. Dam is about 12 ft wide, 5 tandem loads of red clay fill.

 

[Fuddy1952]

Now pictures. Yesterday I drove T posts every 2 feet as you see, about 3 feet into ground. Then I took wire fence and bent a foot out at 90 degrees, put over posts, 12x12 concrete blocks placed on wire.
Now I want to put rip rap when it dries out on dam...one layer, then downhill and a lot in the creek. My idea of fence, wire, posts is stop erosion? Water will slow down coming down hill I'm hoping.
How far should it be from overflow to top of road on dam? Right now it's well packed, and about 18" water to road top.

 

[Fuddy1952]

Eventually (by next year hopefully) I'll have a horse stable/storage overhang not far from house, the spring reservoir and creek for water. Hoping to have water hydrant within paddock also hooked to our well.

 

[oosik]

Seven or eight years ago the Highway Dept did mods to a local small stream. Relocation, deepening, bank rip-rap, etc. There was danger that it would wash out the county road. I stopped and watched. The foreman came and asked if there was something I wanted.

I thought, asked if he had to secure permits. He laughed and said - come over to my pickup. There on a clipboard were signed/stamped permits from five(5) government agencies. This was a government agency doing the work - not some private contractor.

Can you imagine the hoops, permits & hoopla a private citizen or private contractor would have had to go thru for this project. It boggles the mind.

 

[DrRod]

I've been applying for a temporary bridge permit for months. I've sent stuff to the township, county, and two state agencies. Now I'm wrangling with a state biologist who is never satisfied with the data. So yes, it boggles the mind.

 

[Fuddy1952]

That's why when new neighbor's moved in a year ago the retired engineer father-in-law wanted to get the state government involved in everything like fencing the creek from manure run off, drilling a well, etc.
I talked them out of it. Once you get the government involved it becomes a nightmare.

 

[1010]

That's why when new neighbor's moved in a year ago the retired engineer father-in-law wanted to get the state government involved in everything like fencing the creek from manure run off, drilling a well, etc.
I talked them out of it. Once you get the government involved it becomes a nightmare.

Just saying here, so don't take it the wrong way. Getting the correct permits is a drop in the bucket compared to the FINE for altering a stream..
The "I didn't know" excuse will get you no where either..
I've worked granting these type permits. Many times a neighbor turns in their neighbor after some dispute about anything or even if they find out you didn't have the correct permits to alter water. Once a report is made it's investigated and if a violation is made possible you will get a certified nasty letter telling you to cease and desist the construction. And they will be in touch. You are at their mercy at that point.
I'm not saying I agree with the GOV here, I'm saying they can use photographs and other imagery to see exactly what you did and narrow it down to a month or less.. They have to good stuff too. And if you refuse to allow them on the property, the ARMED to the teeth US marshal service will escort them while you watch.. I've seen it happen..

 

[oosik]

Fuddy - seriously, you DO NOT want to get involved with ANYTHING regarding that stream without the correct permits. That is ONE area where the federal government will show no mercy. I know from years working with them on placer mining and mining discharges.

I don't care if you take this the right OR wrong way. Don't do something that you will regret!!!

 

[Fuddy1952]

I'm not altering a stream! All I'm doing is providing a reservoir for an existing spring.
Then the creek crossing...if they come after me for that, they would also come after two neighbors upstream and one below. Also, work was done by a contractor. So you're saying five people get in trouble?
The work is finished. Sorry I asked opinions. All I was asking for was assistance or thoughts on an existing crossing.
By the way...just now I hauled a truckload of garbage I got out of the creek upstream, junk you wouldn't believe, car wheels, old steel posts, wire, beer cans, plastic, a barrel, etc. Was I breaking the law for that?
Cleaning up trash, helping the environment.
I know everyone means well but pa-leeze!
Can I email from Sing-Sing?

 

[Threepoint]

Fuddy1952, yep, they were trying to help you with some cautionary comments and pretty good advice. Hope all of this works out for you.