Cub RZT 50 Pto issues

wat5150 · May 11, 2012

I have cub rzt 50. 4 years old. When I go into reverse it takes a minute for the pto to engage. Sometimes several minutes. I notice this more often under heavy usage. Is there any way to bypass the super annoying shut off in reverse. Its a real pain and it seems like it is harsh on the equipment to keep starting and stopping the pto all the time. Thank you

RandyT · May 11, 2012

Maybe the clutch needs adjusted. When they kick in and out they wear the contact plates, Then when warm it takes more amps to keep it engaged. there should be three slots around the perimeter that you can slide a feeler gauge into, to check the gap. Gap should be .012 all the way around. Adjust the three nuts to set the gap.

The reverse system on z-turns is a little more complicated than on normal riders because of the two switches, one on each direction lever, and are wired in series.

GBHRPS · May 11, 2012

wat5150,

I have a ZForce 48 that the previous owner disabled the reverse PTO lockout on. I agree with you, that turning the PTO off each time you reverse is too hard on the machinery, not to mention a pain because you can't cut that patch of grass behind you. Sure, its a safety issue, but a painful one to put up with.

I've had various things disassembled on my unit for cleaning/adjustment/repairs and would assume that your unit would be similar. With the side panels removed that hold the relays/switches/gauges/throttle/etc., I found that there are push button switches that are activated (pushed in) when the levers are pulled into the reverse position. There is one behind each lever. In my case, the previous owner simply pulled the wiring connector from each switch and taped their ends.

Yours may be similar. If when you pull the connectors, nothing changes, then you may have to run a short jumper wire from one pin on the connector to the other one. It all depends on how your switches are used in the tractor's wiring.

If this works for you, great! If not, then you'll need someone who has more knowledge than I do. Good Luck!

wat5150 · May 12, 2012

Thanks for the responses. I will poke around and check the clutch. I mow a fair amount of lawns with this mower and the reverse feature is just lame. Belts and such take a beating this way. Just bad design I think.

dusty3030 · May 12, 2012

wat5150 said:
Thanks for the responses. I will poke around and check the clutch. I mow a fair amount of lawns with this mower and the reverse feature is just lame. Belts and such take a beating this way. Just bad design I think.

Designed due to lawyers.

wat5150 · May 12, 2012

I understand the legal and safety measures. But then again there are quite a few out there that mow in reverse. Guess I should have purchased one of them!!!

JTKub · May 12, 2012

Wat, it's a REAL easy adjustment to be able to mow in reverse. It was the first thing I did for my Z-Force.

I shutter every time a neighbor of mine yanks the sticks back on his older Z-Force. I can't believe that PTO hasn't grenaded yet with the amount of times it's cycled per mow.

Joel

wat5150 · May 12, 2012

ok Joel so what is the adjustment? Ive tried unplugging both of the wire plugs directly beneath the control arms and no dice. Someone even suggested stuffing tin foil in the female end of the plug so the posts touch. Tried all that and pto wont engage at all that way.

GBHRPS · May 12, 2012

wat5150,
Go to a Cub Cadet site (Messicks .com, for instance, and link on Cub cadet parts), and enter your model number. From there you'll be able to search through PDF files for the wiring diagrams. Download and print off a copy ( as well as the service manuals, while you're at it) and take them to someone who can read them and tell you what you need to do to kill the reverse PTO lockout.

Good Luck!

JTKub · May 12, 2012

wat5150 said:
ok Joel so what is the adjustment?

Check your private messages..

Joel

wat5150 · May 13, 2012

I tried all that Joel. I unplugged left side and it is fine when I put left side in reverse. But I unplugged right side and pto wont engage at all. Thanks though.

wat5150 · May 15, 2012

I had another issue with my pto today. It seems if I have used my mower alot and then go in reverse the pto wont engage again. i can hear a click like the pto wants to engage but it doesnt. Sometimes if I get off the mower and move the belt and pulley along and try pto again it comes on. It wouldnt even be that big of an issue if the mower didnt shut off in reverse!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ive unplugged both of the plugs at the bottom of each control arm and that made it so the pto wouldnt engage at all. I have the left one unhooked and it will engage but I have to leave the right one plugged in. There has to be a way to bypass that thing.

rcbe · May 15, 2012

some pto clutches are adjustable, others not. Might chk yer manual for info.

wat5150 · May 17, 2012

I solved the reverse pto shut off. I moved the switch that turns off the pto in reverse. I left it plugged in but unscrewed it from its harness and moved it. This way the tab on the bottom of the lap bar does not press the button when going in reverse. Works sweet so far.

hms187 · Dec 8, 2012

Guys I have a rxt 50 and mow commercially. I just disconnected 1 switch plug and installed a jumper wire, has worked for me and a freind who has a rzt 50. Good luck

Budeastes · Jul 12, 2014

GBHRPS said:
wat5150,
Go to a Cub Cadet site (Messicks .com, for instance, and link on Cub cadet parts), and enter your model number. From there you'll be able to search through PDF files for the wiring diagrams. Download and print off a copy ( as well as the service manuals, while you're at it) and take them to someone who can read them and tell you what you need to do to kill the reverse PTO lockout.

Good Luck!

I had the same issues, mine got to the point it would kick back on at all, after buying several switches, at least 3. I decided to start bypassing them. That was 2 years ago. The only safety issue I have is it now starts on or off the mower. Pto engaged or not and it doesn't matter wether the park brake is on or not. Haven't lost any body parts yet. All I did was plug in a small wire into each safety switch beneath the handlebars and chased down the seat switch.

LeftTurn · Jul 1, 2015

Having RZT50 PTO clutch issues.

Clutch will not engage when the mower has run for an hour or so. After letting the mower cool down for an hour or so, the PTO will engage.

A while back the PTO switch failed completely and I replaced it, only to run into the problem above.

The mower is an older unit. The manual wiring diagram shows 3 relays, one for the PTO. However...this mower has no relays - the PTO switch goes directly to the PTO - no relay.

I'm guessing that the PTO may be drawing higher amperage when hot and overloading the PTO switch.

I plan on adding a relay & fuse for the PTO circuit, instead of having the PTO current run thru the PTO switch.

Before doing that, I'm wondering about notes that I've seen which say that a bad clutch gap leads to higher amperage draw. (reply #2 in this thread - RANDYT). I can't see how the gap affects amperage, but I'm ready to be educated!

rcbe · Jul 1, 2015

this may help Warner Electric look in the Turf and garden section for pdf on garden tractor troubleshooting, etc. much info there from warner clutch.

LeftTurn · Jul 14, 2015

The PTO problem is fixed. To contribute to the forum in return for the help that I found here, here is the story:

The initial problem was the PTO not engaging after mowing for an hour or so. I'd have to stop & let the mower sit for a half hour before continuing. The problem advanced to the PTO not working at all.

Solution process:

I first traced the problem to a failed PTO switch. I replaced the switch ($20) only to have the mower work for a couple of times and then burn out the switch again.

Doing some research, I learned that the RZT50 had two electrical designs. One has 3 relays (PTO, seat, brake). These are there to avoid current load going thru the switches. A second design has no relays! The current load runs thru the switches. My mower was the one without the relays. A high current draw from the PTO was burning out the switch. My solution was to install a standard automotive relay in the PTO circuit. The PTO switch switched on the relay, which carried the current for the PTO. This stopped the switch burnout, but didn't solve the problem. After an hour of mowing, the battery voltage would drop to 7V and the PTO would cut out.

Hoping to not find a bad PTO, I checked out a couple of dead-end possibilities. I had the battery tested & it was fine. The alternator/charging system was also fine, as it would charge a low battery as long as the PTO was off.

Some notes here suggest that a bad gap in the clutch could cause high current draw, so I adjusted the gap with a feeler gauge to .012. There are links to clutch manuals here in the forum. In my case, this made no difference.

Finally resigned to a likely bad PTO clutch, I tested the resistance of the PTO coil. It's simple to do with the PTO on the mower. Just disconnect the plug to the PTO can test the resistance of the PTO side with an ohmmeter. 2-4 ohms is good. Lower or higher is bad. In my case is was less than 1 ohm, indicating a PTO coil that would draw high current. Time for a new PTO clutch!

Cub parts and my local dealer want between $300-$400 for a new clutch (not installed). I easily found a new replacement clutch on Amazon (Extreme Equipment Torque Series http://www.amazon.com/shops/PPowerSales ) for $179. Removing the old and installing the new clutch was surprisingly easy and the new clutch came with excellent instructions.

The mower is now working, pending the next Cub ZT failure