Cummins fined $1.675 Billion for gaming their diesel emissions.

[ericm979]

I'm planning an engine swap into an older vehicle that otherwise would have had ZERO emission controls (pre 1970).

I'm still trying to figure out which basic drivetrain I wish to put in. One option is one of the Cummins engines, and everything indicates that they have gotten much better over the last 20 years or so. More powerful and more fuel efficient.

There would be a valid argument to DPF delete it (or just not install the DPF), which would largely be unregulated in the pre 1970 vehicles.

So, if that is a consideration, should I purchase one of the DPF delete kits while one can still generally purchase them? Otherwise reprogramming the computers could be a nightmare.

It sounds like an interesting project. You can remove the DPF and DOC on your own if you're building the exhaust but you'll need some parts to delete the EGR and of course the programming to make the ECU happy about all that.

I'm not sure but I think that putting a newish engine in an old vehicle clears you on a federal level. It's tampering with the emissions on a new vehicle that's a problem. And to be honest, I've never worried about that on a federal level, just on the state. The feds may go after someone selling thousands of delete kits but they're not going to care about an individual's own non commercial vehicle. How would they even know? The state can make you do smog testing to get your registration (which I believe is not required where you are) but the feds have no way of knowing.

 

[Torvy]

That's why some people buy the TYM/Kukje engines. No computer shutting the tractor down if the sensors fail or the DPF falls off into the 'lake'.

 

[jyoutz]

I'm planning an engine swap into an older vehicle that otherwise would have had ZERO emission controls (pre 1970).

I'm still trying to figure out which basic drivetrain I wish to put in. One option is one of the Cummins engines, and everything indicates that they have gotten much better over the last 20 years or so. More powerful and more fuel efficient.

There would be a valid argument to DPF delete it (or just not install the DPF), which would largely be unregulated in the pre 1970 vehicles.

So, if that is a consideration, should I purchase one of the DPF delete kits while one can still generally purchase them? Otherwise reprogramming the computers could be a nightmare.

My 2007 5.9 Cummins has no DEF or DPF regeneration. You don’t have to buy 1970s technology.

 

[ultrarunner]

I think it depends on where you are...

In California the emissions required must meet the year of the power plant...

I know a few hot rodders that got into trouble with modern mills in older vehicles.

California had required emission equipment retrofit back to 1955 but now it's 1976 and newer biannual testing.

I'm planning an engine swap into an older vehicle that otherwise would have had ZERO emission controls (pre 1970).

I'm still trying to figure out which basic drivetrain I wish to put in. One option is one of the Cummins engines, and everything indicates that they have gotten much better over the last 20 years or so. More powerful and more fuel efficient.

There would be a valid argument to DPF delete it (or just not install the DPF), which would largely be unregulated in the pre 1970 vehicles.

So, if that is a consideration, should I purchase one of the DPF delete kits while one can still generally purchase them? Otherwise reprogramming the computers could be a nightmare.

 

[ultrarunner]

It's pretty much a one size fits all and therein lies many problems...

Coal here faded away because natural gas and electricity were less expensive and required no handling.

The local coal dealer right across the street from where I worked as a teen said the demand simply faded away...

It started as hay, grain, heating oil and coal and transitioned to tire recapping and now has a 6 story building on the property...

Currently it is often against the law to heat with wood and/or have a wood fire for heating by statute. Nothing in the statute mentions coal and cooking with wood is permitted even in times when heating is forbidden...

One of my old furnaces was coal retrofitted for natural gas in the 1930's.

As far as the coal, there likely were big changes over the years. In the rural areas, perhaps there was a push to replace coal with heating oil. Easier, no mess.

And in the cities, I imagine there was also a big push to get rid of the coal, and change over to the much "cleaner" natural gas. I had a house with an old coal chute, unused for decades. It is quite likely everyone was forced to change over.

I can remember as a kid going down to Disney Land. I was mostly interested in all the kid's stuff, but my grandparents complained about the LA SMOG. And it wasn't just LA, but many big urban centers across the USA. St Louis?

The USA has put a lot of work into making the air cleaner, as well as cleaning the waterways. There is still more that needs to be done, but it is a big start.

One can complain about California, but they had big problems in the past and a lot of work to make things better.

One of the problems is urban vs rural needs. However, one of the small towns in Oregon that struggles with air quality is Oakridge with everyone burning wood and poor air circulation. Still, the urban environment and the rural environment is different. The problem isn't the little 20 to 30 HP garden tractors that get a few hours a month. It can take me months, or sometimes even years for me to burn up 5 gallons of diesel. Although I would like a tractor that didn't blow black smoke in my own face. A couple of years ago I was talking to a logger that was complaining about new clean air requirements for logging trucks. Again, not a big issue for a few trucks way up in the mountains, even if some of them are hauling logs into the cities.

 

[lilranch2001]

I grew up in a house that had a coal fired cast iron octopus boiler that was converted about the same time I was born to natural gas

 

[CliffordK]

The state can make you do smog testing to get your registration (which I believe is not required where you are) but the feds have no way of knowing.

I've been around a bit. Eugene doesn't have smog testing, but Portland does. When I was in Portland, I tried taking my old Fiat 5\00 to the SMOG testing place, until they looked at the registration and told me that mid 60's was too old and sent me on my way.

The DMV doesn't do any safety testing, although the police could nab a person for bad lights. However, that would also be dependent on OEM equipment. So, the oldest vehicles would be grandfathered in for no seat belts, and perhaps no turn signals.

St. Louis only does smog testing in 1996 or 1997 and newer vehicles (OBDII vehicles). They also have a rudimentary safety inspection.

Anyway, I think my 1950's Grumman will be largely ignored. I am hoping to be able to tow a cargo trailer with it, but I'll try to keep away from some DOT scrutiny.

I realize the late 90's and early 2000's Cummins engines would have minimal smog stuff, but I have to carefully decide if the late 2010's or early 2020's engines would be better as I'm intending on building a road warrior.

 

[CliffordK]

Currently it is often against the law to heat with wood and/or have a wood fire for heating by statute. Nothing in the statute mentions coal and cooking with wood is permitted even in times when heating is forbidden...

It varies from place to place. I've heard that many parts of California are getting strict. Here there are generally exemptions for people who use wood as their primary heat source.

Since at least the early 1990's, there has been an attempt to make cleaner burning wood stoves. Initially with Catalytic after burners in the stoves, then later with an air injection system in the top of the stove.

Here in Oregon, technically they want all new stoves installed to be EPA certified, and if a home is sold, the stove should be upgraded to being EPA certified. Fireplaces may be exempt, and it may be that rural households receive less scrutiny than urban areas.

 

[ultrarunner]

I no longer believe a new home is able to be built with a wood burner in my city.

For a long time the air district was paying a bounty on every wood burner removed or converted to natural gas but I’m no longer sure if applies to natural gas conversion as natural gas is also being phased out.

With the cooking exemption people will at least be well fed as they freeze.

I have two CAT stoves at two places but the spare the air restriction apply to these also.

The utopia is passive solar and all electric future.

But with rates getting closer to .50 cents a kWh large bills expect to be the norm plus large water and garbage…

 

[RandyT]

It sounds like an interesting project. You can remove the DPF and DOC on your own if you're building the exhaust but you'll need some parts to delete the EGR and of course the programming to make the ECU happy about all that.

I'm not sure but I think that putting a newish engine in an old vehicle clears you on a federal level. It's tampering with the emissions on a new vehicle that's a problem. And to be honest, I've never worried about that on a federal level, just on the state. The feds may go after someone selling thousands of delete kits but they're not going to care about an individual's own non commercial vehicle. How would they even know? The state can make you do smog testing to get your registration (which I believe is not required where you are) but the feds have no way of knowing.

That would depend on if the EPA emissions requirements are tied to the vehicle or the engine.