Curious "Canadian or U.K." question on health care?

[Dadnatron]

Just saw this post so this may already have been said. two major problems with US insurance #1 mandated coverage, can you imagine how much car insurance would be if the government mandated insurance pay for "safety" issues like tire, brakes and other normal maintenance, like they do with health insurance. Over the years US citizens have grow accustom to having insurance pay for everything. If it only covered catastrophic problems(like car insurance) competition would drive down cost. #2 malpractice lawsuits, Dr now days do every single test they can to cover their A**. Since insurance cover most of the cost patients don't ask why or how much a test cost. There is also the problem that the US is almost 10 times more populated than Canada.

Absolutely...

There are MANY reasons for the US high cost... least of which is the Healthcare workers themselves. Actual caregiver costs including MDs, nurses, DCs, etc make up approximately 13% of total healthcare costs. Doctors make up 5% of that 13%. The other costs are mostly the cost of 'technology'. The screws used in spinal surgery can cost $4K each. The coils used in aneurysm embolization are $2-3K each and often, I use 15-20 of them to complete a procedure. etc etc etc. This is unneccessary, but the cost for entry is so high, that to jump through the hoops of .gov puts in front of you, you have to have $100M to begin the process and then make it up afterwards. Even using the Exact same formulation or process, or material a generic has to go through the same hoops as if they invented it themselves.

Everyone in the US wants a 'Private room' and new hospitals are quick to oblige. Everyone wants their 'doctor' just down the street, and Hospital systems are happy to maintain their 'Non-Profit' status by putting up plush 'med checks' and 'doctor's offices' on every street corner. In the Indianapolis area, 2 of the 4 major competing hospital systems built BRAND NEW hospitals just outside of town... directly across the road from one another... after a new exit was built to a new shopping center. 2 BRAND NEW STATE OF THE ART hospitals, were built within 15 miles of 3 OTHER major hospitals.

Over the last 3 years, I spent $50K defending a bogus malpractice case which was ultimately dropped when the review board concluded there was no evidence. The lawsuit??? I had fired a co-worker (MD) a year before, and he found a patient I had seen, talked him into suing, and cost me the $50K. He knew there was nothing there... but he also knew he could cause me a lot of frustration. Not only that, but he made $300/hr as an expert witness. He cares nothing for his reputation, which is only 1 of the reasons I fired his ***. While I am frustrated at the patient... he simply believed an idiot and both the patient and I paid a long frustrating price to get back to 'nothing changed'.

And, as is stated, people believe EVERYTHING should costs $0 and should be included in their insurance. Using Car insurance as a correlation is an excellent example of the BS that is insurance. If people simply had catastrophic insurance which paid for MAJOR costs, not skinned knees and broken arms, and paid for the care they get on a routine basis, costs would plummet. Because people would CARE about how much things cost and use them more appropriately.

 

[ATField]

I've never relied on insurance companies. It is much better to monitor your health yourself. It's just that many such companies often cheat and do not help. I have encountered this kind of deception several times, and so I decided that I could only rely on myself. Recently, I began to exercise more often and observe proper nutrition. I have cases when I want to eat something sweet, but in order not to break my diet I replace sweets with apple cider gummies, which I order on druggenius.com. These are some of the most delicious and healthy candies I've ever tasted. Even when I consulted a doctor, he praised me for finding such a way out of the situation.

 

[MoKelly]

Absolutely...

There are MANY reasons for the US high cost... least of which is the Healthcare workers themselves. Actual caregiver costs including MDs, nurses, DCs, etc make up approximately 13% of total healthcare costs. Doctors make up 5% of that 13%. The other costs are mostly the cost of 'technology'. The screws used in spinal surgery can cost $4K each. The coils used in aneurysm embolization are $2-3K each and often, I use 15-20 of them to complete a procedure. etc etc etc. This is unneccessary, but the cost for entry is so high, that to jump through the hoops of .gov puts in front of you, you have to have $100M to begin the process and then make it up afterwards. Even using the Exact same formulation or process, or material a generic has to go through the same hoops as if they invented it themselves.

Everyone in the US wants a 'Private room' and new hospitals are quick to oblige. Everyone wants their 'doctor' just down the street, and Hospital systems are happy to maintain their 'Non-Profit' status by putting up plush 'med checks' and 'doctor's offices' on every street corner. In the Indianapolis area, 2 of the 4 major competing hospital systems built BRAND NEW hospitals just outside of town... directly across the road from one another... after a new exit was built to a new shopping center. 2 BRAND NEW STATE OF THE ART hospitals, were built within 15 miles of 3 OTHER major hospitals.

Over the last 3 years, I spent $50K defending a bogus malpractice case which was ultimately dropped when the review board concluded there was no evidence. The lawsuit??? I had fired a co-worker (MD) a year before, and he found a patient I had seen, talked him into suing, and cost me the $50K. He knew there was nothing there... but he also knew he could cause me a lot of frustration. Not only that, but he made $300/hr as an expert witness. He cares nothing for his reputation, which is only 1 of the reasons I fired his ***. While I am frustrated at the patient... he simply believed an idiot and both the patient and I paid a long frustrating price to get back to 'nothing changed'.

And, as is stated, people believe EVERYTHING should costs $0 and should be included in their insurance. Using Car insurance as a correlation is an excellent example of the BS that is insurance. If people simply had catastrophic insurance which paid for MAJOR costs, not skinned knees and broken arms, and paid for the care they get on a routine basis, costs would plummet. Because people would CARE about how much things cost and use them more appropriately.

My goodness. Doesn’t Indiana require Certificates Of Need before hospitals can be built?

In STL no new bed capacity has been built in a looooong time. New facilities replace existing facilities - but no new bed capacity is created.

Brick facilities create big time costs.

MoKelly

 

[fried1765]

Single payer describes how the health care is paid for but not how it's delivered- that can be public or private or a combination. It also does not preclude insurance companies. Look at how Medicare works- there's still insurance companies involved, and private doctors and hospitals providing service. There's insurance that supplements Medicare and insurance that kind of re-packages it and supplements it (Medicare Advantage). If we went to Medicare for all the insurance marketplace would be different but there'd still be insurance companies. Health-net is a big Advantage supplier and is making money off it.

Getting insurance companies involved less in the business would reduce costs quite a bit. Most other first world countries spend about half what we do (on a % of GDP basis) and get equal or better results. One of the big differences is that our system requires a huge amount of paper pushing between service providers and insurance companies. Other first world countries don't have such a complex system (even the ones that have private insurance) which saves a lot.

Of course the big insurance companies would like to preserve their current status. It's politically difficult to change their situation because they have a lot of money and power. This was one of the problems when framing the ACA- they had to keep the insurance companies on board, so they ended up with a system that's kind of a mashup. It could be simpler and cost less.

Interestingly, we'd have had universal health insurance in 1945s except the AMA (doctors) worked to kill it. 69 years ago, a president pitches his idea for national health care | PBS NewsHour

"Most other first world countries ........ get equal or better results"!

Which "first world" countries ???
England? NOPE!
Canada? NOPE!
Germany? Maybe (VERY high tax rate)
France ? No idea.
Switzerland? VERY SMALL ,Probably.
Sweden? VERY SMALL, maybe ( but has MASSIVE income tax)