Custom Baling

[matt21]

I'm in northeast Oklahoma and looking to start custom hay baling. I have about 9 years experience on tractors. Is it profitable? Or is it not worth the trouble?

Thanks

 

[Robert_in_NY]

What type of bales and what type of operation are you looking to do?

I know of people who make a lot of money just going non stop during hay season pulling a large square baler. All they do is bale for others and they can cover a lot of ground every day. The one makes enough money during hay season that he can relax and play with a hobby during the winter.

You can make money doing custom work but if you are looking at doing all the work then you will want advice on how to cover yourself if the crop gets ruined by rain. You would then have problems trying to schedule every one so that you can get all your customers hay off before it all goes to seed. I tried doing this my first year (only I was doing my own hay and decided I would take on a couple small jobs for some extra income), it was a headache as if I was not on their field doing their hay then they were mad (they don't care if you have your own hay to do). After the first year I decided it was easier to do my own hay and sell it and not worry about too much custom work. I do custom baling for straw as I am usually done with first cut hay so that works into my schedule well.

All I do are small squares and I have a good idea what would work and not work in regards to small squares. If you want to go with large squares make sure you have customers before you sink a lot of money into a tractor and baler (unless you already have them). The guy up the road bought a JCB fasttrac and a brand new New Holland large square baler. He went one year and was out of business as he did not have the customers lined up ahead of time (and we don't have a lot of dairys in this immediate area, he had to drive upwards of 20 miles till he found some small dairys that would be looking for this service.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Poking yourself in the eye with a sharp stick can be profitable if you get enough people to pay you to do that. Hayin' is the same way. It CAN be very lucrative if you have enough of the right sort of customers, an area where you don't have too many competitors, and you know how to hold equipment cost in line with your income.

Or it can be a bottomless money pit.

Your location, your abilities to manage a business, and your skill as a mechanic/operator balanced with intangables such as weather will determine the outcome.

 

[Mickey_Fx]

Welcome to the forum Matt. Are you thinking of a full service haying business of just baling?

Been quite a few yrs since I had a small custom haying business. I guess the answer to profitability is it all depends.

What is the going rate in your area? Is there a real need (potential for customers)? How far are you going to have to travel? Will you have to have a truck and trailer to move equipment around? If you are thinking more than just bailing, how many times will you have to travel to a customers. Are you going to have to purchase equipment and can income make payments, pay for maintainance, etc.

Around here, yield was about 4T acre for first cutting and it would take 3 trips to do all the work. Had a low hrs MF165D and rest of equip was new. Had a mower conditioner, 2 rakes with tedding capability that was needed from time to time. and new sq bailer. Even with the new equip there was equip failure on a reg basis. Sickle sections had to be replaced several times a yr. New JD bailer in in first yr I had to replace a broken knoter and at least 4 needles and main bearing on the crank had to be replaced a couple times a yr. Also had 2 trucks and an implement trailer to move the equipment around. I was able to pay the bills and when a big job came my way the income was decent but there are so many variables I would be hesitant to say you will make a decent income based on time and equipment investment.

You have to have a love for the work. When you are out in the field and the temps are hovering in the 90's or more and your equip is experiencing problems and you find yourself down on the ground working under the equip and hay and chafe is getting in your face, it will give you pause to think if you really want to be doing this.

Hopefully someone else with more recent experience and closer to you with more similar conditions will respond.

 

[matt21]

It would be mowing, raking, and baling round bales. Also i would have to purchase the equipment.

 

[blueriver]

Matt, I am in S.E Oklahoma. Here is something to think about, I do not own any hay equipment, I hire it done. I paid this year $15 per round bale to cut, rake and bale. What I am driving at is how many bales at $15 per bale would you have to put up just to pay for the baler? Not to mention the cutter, the rake, the truck, the trailer, diesel, oil, parts and More!!

Now I am not the sharpest tack in the package and I am sure the custom baler guy has it fiqured out!

Oh ... I ussually wait on him and worry about the weather, how about those dry conditions we had the past few ... any hay made around your area?

 

[Rara Avis]

It would be mowing, raking, and baling round bales. Also i would have to purchase the equipment.

Put up a small part of your business plan and then we can discuss your options...
Because if you don't have a business plan...you are doomed...

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Put up a small part of your business plan and then we can discuss your options...
Because if you don't have a business plan...you are doomed...

Buy a baler and make money. What more do you need

I do wish Matt the best if he goes forward with his plan. If he plans on doing everything like he said then he needs to get customers lined up before he buys any equipment and try to figure out a schedule so that he can travel from one farm to the next in a somewhat orderly manner. Running equipment all over the place back and forth will waste time and money so a good schedule is very important.

Matt, have you talked to any protential customers? If not how are you going to look for customers? I am not the type of guy that goes door to door and in fact I have never had to look for work haying. I bought my equipment to use at my ex's familys farm. When I first got the baler it was dropped off in my driveway and by the end of the day I had my first customer (who really ended up propelling me to where I am now, poor and stupid ). Actually, he has been great to me and without him I would have had to do a lot more work fixing up my own fields. But he just saw my baler and he needed someone to maintain his farm as he only wanted 3-500 bales for his own use out of 50 acres of hay ground. I charged him cost for his bales and help put them up in his barn and the rest of the hay is where I make my money. I invest money back into his ground though by planting new fields (fields that needed to be turned over) and fertilizing and limeing the ground. He is happy and we are actually quite close now. He doesn't have any horses anymore and just resells the hay we put up for him. He wants me to buy his farm when he is ready to sell as he is very old and right now he is not doing very well. I would love to buy his farm and give him and his wife life lease on the place as they have been great to me and it is a wonderful area that I could see raising my daughter there.

Basically what I am saying is if you like this work and have some work lined up then go for it. It was the best thing I ever did and in a few months my baler and discbine will be paid off and that is what I have been looking forward to.

I do wish you the best as this job is great, just make sure you have an open station tractor for raking and tedding on those great days when you have a wonderful breeze blowing thru the platform (a canopy keeps the sun off your head so you can enjoy the breeze even more). I use a cab tractor for cutting and baling but open stations for the rake and tedder. I did use a 2wd TN75 cab to rake once as it was my helpers tractor. She wanted the AC for when she had to rake (it was hot that day), but she had to leave early and I took over and just did not like it. Yeah, the AC was nice but I missed being outside

 

[chh]

Hey Matt, sounds like I'm about halfway between you and blueriver. How much of your experience is in the hayfield? Around here we have quite a few custom balers, but the mix constantly changes as new guys come in to replace the ones who go broke of just give up on the hassles of weather, equipment and keeping decent hired help. That said there are some that have been doing it for years and make decent money at it. Make a business plan and look hard at the $$$. Equipment, $3 dollar a gallon off road fuel, transporting, labor, and finding customers is all part of it. Good luck and think about it real hard and then be ready to work real hard.

 

[charlz]

try to figure out a schedule so that he can travel from one farm to the next in a somewhat orderly manner. Running equipment all over the place back and forth will waste time and money so a good schedule is very important.(

I have about 2 acres in hay, in our subdivision there are 16 places, about 6 have hay, most about 5 acres. So probably about 25 acres of hay all cut by the same custom cutter. He does his own place, our places and other leased ground etc. His places is about 5-7 miles from my place.

I just shake my head when he comes in, cuts 2 places, leaves for a few days, comes back and cuts a couple more. Same with raking, baling and stacking. Sometimes he will park the equipment and his helper will pick him up in a truck, other times he runs the swather or tractors back to his place or where ever he is going next. At the price of fuel it makes me wonder how he can justify cutting all these small places. Although I am glad he does


If you are going to get into the business I would pay very close attention to scheduling as Robert notes. Haying 200 acres scattered on 75 places is far different than haying 200 acres in a single field.

Charles

 

[bigbull338]

i hope you have all the baling equipment to start a custom balong business.because if you dont your going to spend alot of money.the baler will cost you $30,000 or more new the disk cutter wll cost $8000 or more depending on what size you get.the rake will cost $8000 more or less.then you may need a tedder if hay gets wet thats another $5000.balimg equipment will cost over $60,000 new.thats not counting your tractors.min of 2 tractors $100,000.so start up with new equipment is $160,000.would have to charge $22 to $25 a bale to break even an maybe pay for equipment.

 

[chh]

Hey Blueriver, will your guy come up to Haskell county? $15 a bale would be considered a steal around here. Most crews topped $20 a couple of years ago. Right now they are not even quoting a price for next summer. They are waiting to see where fuel is going to be. Most local crews run 4 tractors, 2 mowing, 1 rake and 1 baler. To get reliable hired help, if you need it, all tractors have to have cabs with air. Many are pushing net wrap, due to the faster wrapping, but pushes the cost up a $1 or so a bale. Most are shooting to do a minimum of 5000 bales a year. That puts mowers, rakes, and balers on a 2 year rotation (less for some guys, some try and push them longer) until the are traded for new ones.

Right now I'm still sitting on an extra 120 bales that I'd sell for not much more than baling costs just to move it.

 

[Z-Michigan]

i hope you have all the baling equipment to start a custom balong business.because if you dont your going to spend alot of money.the baler will cost you $30,000 or more new the disk cutter wll cost $8000 or more depending on what size you get.the rake will cost $8000 more or less.then you may need a tedder if hay gets wet thats another $5000.balimg equipment will cost over $60,000 new.thats not counting your tractors.min of 2 tractors $100,000.so start up with new equipment is $160,000.would have to charge $22 to $25 a bale to break even an maybe pay for equipment.

Uhhh... I guess that's one way to do it. There are people on here who bought all their equipment used at auction and have a full setup for like $10k or so. Sure it's old and requires more repairs, but it's possible. I think one member who does this is "zzyp6m" or something like that.

We hire our hay out to a local farmer who usually cuts and bales at the same time he does his own fields. We don't bug him on exact dates and accept hay that might be slightly past optimum, and he doesn't charge us that much. Eventually we would like to have our own hay equipment, but it will have to be bought at low, low auction prices to make any sense for our 10 acres of hayfield. I can see doing hay for a few locals as quite practical, if they're easy to deal with. While I have zero experience as a real farmer or custom harvest operator, to do it as a traveling custom cutter seems to me a very risky way to try and make money - become a truck driver instead, you'd make more, be home at least as much, and not have to buy so much equipment. =)

 

[blueriver]

Hey Blueriver, will your guy come up to Haskell county? $15 a bale would be considered a steal around here. Most crews topped $20 a couple of years ago. Right now they are not even quoting a price for next summer. They are waiting to see where fuel is going to be. Most local crews run 4 tractors, 2 mowing, 1 rake and 1 baler. To get reliable hired help, if you need it, all tractors have to have cabs with air. Many are pushing net wrap, due to the faster wrapping, but pushes the cost up a $1 or so a bale. Most are shooting to do a minimum of 5000 bales a year. That puts mowers, rakes, and balers on a 2 year rotation (less for some guys, some try and push them longer) until the are traded for new ones.

Right now I'm still sitting on an extra 120 bales that I'd sell for not much more than baling costs just to move it.

WELL NOW That would be up to him!!! I just don't know how he does it, its not net wrapped but they are real good tight big bales from his J.D. Baler. I have not asked about next year, I assume it will be a few more dollars! The only down side is I usually call to get on the schedule and watch the weather, and then wait ... he's pretty good about it, get's here and gets it done.

When he comes, 1 ton dually with a large flatbed Loaded with equipment, another truck pulling the rake, two tractors, cutter and baler and his wife comes with the car then runs around to get things for the crew!! I can only imagine his cost! Last cutting the PTO Drive on the baler was bad, so he had to order one, went to a friend got his, did mine and then he told me the parts were $1500!

Those 120 Bales will sell, just be patient!! I watched on ebay some hay Just south of me in Texas bring $46.00

Hey keep that price ya'll are paying real quite ... I would hate for that News to drift south!!

 

[Farmwithjunk]

i hope you have all the baling equipment to start a custom balong business.because if you dont your going to spend alot of money.the baler will cost you $30,000 or more new the disk cutter wll cost $8000 or more depending on what size you get.the rake will cost $8000 more or less.then you may need a tedder if hay gets wet thats another $5000.balimg equipment will cost over $60,000 new.thats not counting your tractors.min of 2 tractors $100,000.so start up with new equipment is $160,000.would have to charge $22 to $25 a bale to break even an maybe pay for equipment.

WHEW! Glad you aren't running the show at my place! I'd be busted broke by the end of day one!

I've baled for 20+ years with a Deere 336 baler that I could replace today for $2500. I've got an MF #12 baler I just bought that I paid $1600 for. New Holland 257 RollAbar rakes Average (in good condition) around $1200. New Holland mower conditioners in good shape, maybe $2000. I can't run but one tractor at a time, but let's say 2. I can buy decent MF150's like mine all day long at $5000 ea. My 60 hp Deere 2440, maybe $10,000 for a MINT one. That's TWO balers, TWO tractors, a rake and a moco all for $22,300. About 1/7th the start-up cost of YOUR hayin' operation. And you know what? Not only do I THINK I can do it for what I quoted, I HAVE BEEN DOING IT for less than that for years. I could add a NICE used round baler for another $4000 to $5000.

Long story short, around $25,000 you're good to go with nice dependable used equipment. No one in their right mind would go into a start-up small scale custom baling operation with NO established customers and a $160,000 of initial overhead.

 

[chh]

Hay is a roll of the dice. Last year I could have sold everything I could get baled for $75 to $100 a bale. This year struggling to get the last of it sold even discounting it. We generally make 500 bales or a little over and could turn 700 or so if we tried. Only need about 100 to 120 for myself so far. Will probabably be back in all my own equipment by spring(have already bought some). I wouldn't buy old stuff for myself and sure wouldn't recommend it for somebody trying to do custom. In hay, time is money and quality counts. Breakdowns and weather can each your lunch in a hurry. I already have the tractors and figuire I will have around $40,000 to $45,000 in hay equipment alone if I take the plunge.

 

[bigbull338]

yes you can buy all used equipment for that price.an if shes not in top shape break down on you in the field.i was looking at it from the starting with new equipment from scratch.but ive learned the hard way you dont buy some1 elses problems.for the last few years ive had custom balers bale the hay.an they charge $20 a bale.an they do break down in the field.but thats ok.

 

[blueriver]

WHEW! Glad you aren't running the show at my place! I'd be busted broke by the end of day one!

I've baled for 20+ years with a Deere 336 baler that I could replace today for $2500. I've got an MF #12 baler I just bought that I paid $1600 for. New Holland 257 RollAbar rakes Average (in good condition) around $1200. New Holland mower conditioners in good shape, maybe $2000. I can't run but one tractor at a time, but let's say 2. I can buy decent MF150's like mine all day long at $5000 ea. My 60 hp Deere 2440, maybe $10,000 for a MINT one. That's TWO balers, TWO tractors, a rake and a moco all for $22,300. About 1/7th the start-up cost of YOUR hayin' operation. And you know what? Not only do I THINK I can do it for what I quoted, I HAVE BEEN DOING IT for less than that for years. I could add a NICE used round baler for another $4000 to $5000.

Long story short, around $25,000 you're good to go with nice dependable used equipment. No one in their right mind would go into a start-up small scale custom baling operation with NO established customers and a $160,000 of initial overhead.

I like this better than the $160K, custom baling will work you and you gotta like work!! For me I use 200 round bales a year at last yrs price of $15 it cost me $3K, plus my time and fuel to bring it in. Sooo ... it would only take me 8.3 yrs to pay for used equipment, or 53.3 years to pay for that new stuff!

I have other things to do or what I mean is other things I would rather do.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

yes you can buy all used equipment for that price.an if shes not in top shape break down on you in the field.i was looking at it from the starting with new equipment from scratch.but ive learned the hard way you dont buy some1 elses problems.for the last few years ive had custom balers bale the hay.an they charge $20 a bale.an they do break down in the field.but thats ok.

Not all used equipment is someone elses junk. People upgrade equipment because of various reasons. Not all of them are because their equipment is junk. What good is having $100k worth of tractors if one little electrical problem shuts down your operation? I like new tractors but from my experience, older tractors can be much more reliable as they don't have the electronics.

Here are a few reasons why people sell their "junk" equipment. They have retired, upgraded to larger or smaller machines, have a 2 year turn over plan, needed a tax deduction and last but not least, just plain wanted to trade (new paint syndrome).

I think the main piece of equipment that you want to make sure you buy something good is the baler. Tractors are a dime a dozen and you can borrow or rent another in time of need. Finding another baler when you are in a bind is not as easy.

I do agree two tractors are better then one but for a start up it isn't required and if your reason for the second tractor is for raking/tedding you don't need a $40-$50k tractor for that task. Buy a nice old Ford or such for $4-$6k, put a canopy on it and go. You baling tractor is the one you want a cab on so it will cost more but you can get great 2wd cab tractors from 70-120hp for $12-$16k. Start out with decent used equipment but spend your money where it counts. Then as you build a customer base and can see a profit then look at upgrading if needed. Otherwise store the money away for when you have a major breakdown where it doesn't make sense to repair.

I will say this though, what ever he buys he has to make sure he goes thru it all as he will open himself up to a lot of liability if he cuts a farmers field and his equipment breaks down and they lose the crop. The farmer is now stuck with no hay and the custom operator is the one who will have to answer to him.

 

[blueriver]

Not all used equipment is someone elses junk. People upgrade equipment because of various reasons. Not all of them are because their equipment is junk. What good is having $100k worth of tractors if one little electrical problem shuts down your operation? I like new tractors but from my experience, older tractors can be much more reliable as they don't have the electronics.

Here are a few reasons why people sell their "junk" equipment. They have retired, upgraded to larger or smaller machines, have a 2 year turn over plan, needed a tax deduction and last but not least, just plain wanted to trade (new paint syndrome).

I think the main piece of equipment that you want to make sure you buy something good is the baler. Tractors are a dime a dozen and you can borrow or rent another in time of need. Finding another baler when you are in a bind is not as easy.

I do agree two tractors are better then one but for a start up it isn't required and if your reason for the second tractor is for raking/tedding you don't need a $40-$50k tractor for that task. Buy a nice old Ford or such for $4-$6k, put a canopy on it and go. You baling tractor is the one you want a cab on so it will cost more but you can get great 2wd cab tractors from 70-120hp for $12-$16k. Start out with decent used equipment but spend your money where it counts. Then as you build a customer base and can see a profit then look at upgrading if needed. Otherwise store the money away for when you have a major breakdown where it doesn't make sense to repair.

I will say this though, what ever he buys he has to make sure he goes thru it all as he will open himself up to a lot of liability if he cuts a farmers field and his equipment breaks down and they lose the crop. The farmer is now stuck with no hay and the custom operator is the one who will have to answer to him.

Now thats good sound advice, and I suppose one could start with just one good cab tractor? Just have to hook and unhook more.