CUT Interloper

[RegL]

I have both of those tractors. The 32hp cut runs a chipper and the pt 1430 does everything else. I helped a friend yesterday move his tractor along with a brushhog, forks, rake and bucket to a job site. It took at least an hour to get all that stuff loaded onto two trailers. I didn't hert his feelings by telling him, I could have had the PT and attachments loaded onto my landscape trailer in about ten minutes by my self and been on the way.

 

[DAP]

Rob ... prissyfied ... well that means too small and too light duty - keep in mind that this was an observation based on a picture on the net ... pictures while not telling the whole story can say a lot. Just because a tractor is green doesn't mean its any good! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

longevity and durability: I know the B7800 is a new model, but the Kubota line is mature and has data that prove their reliability ... No way PT has a JD lineage ... do they have the timeline to measure up to say Kubota? New Holland? etc.

Ground clearance: c'mon Rob ... that PT won't move through 12 or more inches of snow very well with what looks like about 7 inches of clearance ... I don't care if the wheels each have a motor or not ... the fact that the tires are A: small and B: the same size means that they will not have as much surface area to apply for tractional purposes. I would make a wager that a 30hp CUT with R4s and a 3pt dirt scoop would get much deeper backing into a pile of material than a 1430 would head first ...

Remember, these are only observational opinions on my part and if I'm wrong I may be a PT owner someday...

I usually don't participate nor condone all the dyam pissin contests that frequent TBN ... but the Rah Rah stuff gets a lil too heavy also ... people will do ANYTHING to be pleased with having made the right decisions on things like this ... understandable ... I'm just trying to collect objective information.


With the PT's being A: factory direct only, B: expensive generally: and C: bascially unsupported, it will be interesting to see if this business model can survive and compete as something other than a niche machine.

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[Bob_Skurka]

Doug . . . FYI Power Trac is a division of a company that has made deep mining articulated equipment for years. Leader in that industry in fact. So they do have a legacy track record that goes back a couple decades as the leading supplier of this type of equipment.

As for traction, given a similar weight machine, I would give the traction edge to an articulated/ossilating piece of equipment every time. A typical CUT is rigid frame and when one front tire crawls over a rock, both front tires lift, if the tractor begins to tip a bit then weight comes off a rear tire and a front tire. With a PT style piece of equipment if one tire lifts to crawl over a rock, the other front tire stays on the ground and both rears stay on the ground giving you 4 tires of surface area to grip versus 2. Tire surface area on flat ground is probably equal because the PT tires are fairly fat. Physics is going to give the traction to the PT.

Ground clearance is questionable becuase while it won't straddle a 12" log if there is only 7" of space between the ground and the bottom of the frame, it does not mean it will not crawl over 12" logs. Refer to the above ossilation of the frame allowing the tractor to effectively crawl over just about anything.

And on any slope, the PT will have much greater traction in every direction of travel, as well as much greater stability in every direction of travel.

 

[MossRoad]

<font color="blue"> I usually don't participate nor condone all the dyam pissin contests that frequent TBN ... but the Rah Rah stuff gets a lil too heavy also ... people will do ANYTHING to be pleased with having made the right decisions on things like this ... understandable ... I'm just trying to collect objective information. </font>

You are being very cordial so far and I doubt anyone here will take offense to honest questions. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

My guess is if you hooked two of these units(a CUT and a Power Trac) of similar size end-to-end and had a tug of war, the CUT would most likely win, especially with the CUT in low range. But I'd still like to see it, wouldn't you? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


<font color="blue"> I would make a wager that a 30hp CUT with R4s and a 3pt dirt scoop would get much deeper backing into a pile of material than a 1430 would head first ... </font>

In response to that, I'd have to say, get a 30HP CUT with R4s and an FEL and a similar Power Trac with a similar sized bucket and tires of similar tread and put them to work side by side moving that pile of material from point A to point B. The Power Trac will most likely get done much faster.

<font color="blue"> it will be interesting to see if this business model can survive and compete as something other than a niche machine </font>

Which niche? Home owner. Estate owner. Professional landscaper. Nursery. Snow removal... Really, aren't all the CUTs a niche machine? They fill the niche between small garden tractors and large farm tractors. Some overlap at each end of the scale, but mostly, they are utility tractors. The Power Trac is a utility machine, too. I wish you were close to one so that you could see these machines work. It really is impressive and well thought out. But so was BETA vs. VHS and look what happened... DOH! Don't go there! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

<font color="red">Ground clearance: c'mon Rob ... that PT won't move through 12 or more inches of snow very well with what looks like about 7 inches of clearance ... I don't care if the wheels each have a motor or not ... the fact that the tires are A: small and B: the same size means that they will not have as much surface area to apply for tractional purposes. I would make a wager that a 30hp CUT with R4s and a 3pt dirt scoop would get much deeper backing into a pile of material than a 1430 would head first ... </font>
DAP - I don't have a 1430, but an 1845. I had no problem getting around in 21" of snow in 2003, with turf tires. Our 2240 John Deere will outpull the PT, because it it a lot heavier, not because of tire patch size. It would be an interesting test if I ballasted the PT to more weight. With a bucket, the PT will outwork the JD because it is handier. To get equal lift capability, we use a Jimmy 6-71 block as a counterweight on the 3-point of the JD. Heavy and clumsy, and we've broken 3 front spindles. Without the counterweight, the JD spins the big rears, even though they're filled, and the PT would do graceful circles around it carrying the same bucket load.

I don't agree that the Power Tracs and their attachments are expensive compared to conventional tractors, at least the name brands. Be sure you're comparing apples to apples. My 6' rough-cut mower, for instance, is a lot more comparable to high end stuff like Ammbusher than to a typical CUT finish or brush hog. I guarantee if you see any PT or attachment in person, you won't call it prissified. They're overbuilt, if anything. Try lifting the engine cover on an 1845.
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Remember, these are only observational opinions on my part and if I'm wrong I may be a PT owner someday...
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Take a trip to Tazewell and let us know which model you get. You can keep your 3-point CUT for comparison testing and report the results. We'll reserve some thread space here for you. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[RegL]

prissified? Thats what's nice. The PT is actually heavy duty, But it's more CUTE than a CUT.

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Doug:
I suspect that if you took a drive over to East Chatham, John Coxon, AKA Sedgewood, would let you do some eyeball comparison of his PT 1845 and his conventional tractor. He'd particularly like to demonstrate his recently reinforced mini hoe. He's the board's specialist in heat and stress testing. (Bubenberg does the aerobatics.) /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[toy]

In your comparison of the machines make sure that you stay inthe same price bracket for the machines . Say a 30 hp deisel from pt is 14,000 to compare it to a 30 hp of a different make that cost 1,770 wouldn't be a fair comparision. Now lets get some attachments for the machines what price comparisons are they, that has to be considered also. I got a 425pt with small bucket and teeth, a mini hoe, set of forks, brush hog, spare tire dozer blade with a cutter bar and rubber lip for snow removal, an extra mounting plate. seems like it was around 12,000 for it all. Now if you got a machinewith all those attachments and for the same amount of money would you be getting a machine that would do the same amount of work or would it be getting a joke. A friend of mine had a flat on a john deer that he was using, cost to repair over 400 dollars closer to five hundred, just about what it would cost to replace tires all way round on my 425. Now lets talk about waranties warenties do run out and then you do have to pay the repair bills. Say the rear wheels quit pulling the cost of repairing it would have to be considered ouch! I haven't had any thing to go wrong with mine so far but the wheel motors have a couple hoses and about 4 bolts that hold them on, I bet you could make that repair yourself, could you repair the differential of the other machines yourself or would you have to hire a mechanic to come and make the repair. The pt has a metal rop, my brothers machine has a real nice plastic canopy that I believe would break if a limb was to fall out of a tree and hit it like someone on the forum mentioned a few days ago. There is no any plastic on the pt except maybe a little around the stering wheel and the switches are. I do reallly like my pt, it is small enough that it doesn't take up a lot of room to store when not in use, I have done a lot of jobs with mine and it never ceases to amaze me. One word of caution is it will lift a heavy load when it is straight, but when you try to cut a steep curve it will get up on its front wheels and try to dance like mr bojangles and you will get a thrill. I like the fact that it isn't very wide and isn't very tall which means that it can go into tighter places to work and it is easy on the grass.

 

[FOURTEEN]

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When talking about ground clearance and big tires on a typical CUT with a FEL of similar size, power, and cost of a Power Trac, do NOT look at those big rear tires and think: "Wow, those will take me through anything!!". It's the FRONT tires that have to do most of the work!! What size are they? How tall? How wide? How will they perform with near maximum load on the FEL?? How strong are they? Will those tie rod ends snap off when I try to climb over a log at an angle?

If you are out in the woods carrying a heavy log, climbing over other logs and branches, in and out of holes, across ditches, trying to move where your log is longer than the spacing between the trees, trying to easily turn around to go back out the way you came in, moving with 90% of the entire weight of the load and tractor on the front wheels, knowing that if those big high rear wheels come off the ground it could spell disaster, turning wide around stumps because the front and rear wheels follow different tracks, needing to cut away a lot of branches that would pass over a PT, shifting gears, deciding whether to use 2WD, 4WD, low range, high range, creeper, differential lock, or the split brakes, all while hoping a branch doesn't come crashing through your flimsy plastic sunroof, you will undoubtedly say: "Gee, I wish I had one of those prissyfied Power Tracs!!"!!

PS: /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif After the rear wheels on a PT come off the ground a few times while you are lifting, you soon learn that this is not a cause for alarm!! Often the load can still be pushed or dragged in a straight line! Then just lower the rears to change direction, lift again, and off you go!!
(I am referring to lifting a big log or tree with the Grapple Bucket where the fangs lock the load to the bucket and stabilize the tractor and load as one unit!) /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



PPS: /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif www.onelook.com/?w=prissyfied+&ls=a /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif



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[MossRoad]

Hee hee. But in all honesty, when you look at the box blade in the pictures on the web, I also thought it looked kind of weeny, but definately no prissyfied /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I've never seen one up close, so maybe it is the picture, but that is the honest impression it gave me, too. Sorry to disrespect my beloved Power Trac, but it had to be said... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

A picture is worth a thousand words. Maybe we should notifiy Power Trac that they need a different picture of the box blade. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif