Cutting hay on small acreage.

[stravis]

It's killing me to watch perfectly good hay in my fields get cut and left on the ground while I buy hay to put out for the horse. I'm thinking of getting into baling my own. First step, research. I've researched what I need. I think I'd get a mower conditioner as it is faster and negates the need for a rake as it conditions the hay and puts it into windrows. Great, so now all I need is a baler. I'd like to bail with net wrapping. I know nothing of balers.

First. Am I correct in assuming that these two implements could successfully harvest hay? I know I haven't gotten into seeding, fertilizing, etc.. I'm only dealing with harvest right now.

Second, is my tractor capable to run these units? I have a 2009 JD 5101E Limited. 101 Horse, MFWD, 553 Loader, Only one rear remote. Two forward remotes. I have a bale spear for the loader.

Third, I know this will cost more than it's worth as I don't have enough acreage to do this for a living, but I'd rather put my hay money into equipment than into someone elses farm. What can I get a reasonably priced and good condition mower conditioner and baler (round) for? What kinds, models, makes?

 

[jenkinsph]

This can get to be expensive quick, new upwards of $30,000. or more. A couple of questions, how much hay do you use? How much can you produce? How much can you sell to others? How much is a bale going for? How much do you like to work? What kind of hay?

 

[aczlan]

Are you thinking of doing round bales, small square bales or large square bales?
Your tractor should be able to handle most any of them, but I would recommend getting a rake that will allow you to merge window rows (such as a roll bar or wheel rake), that way you can merge multiple rows together which will save quite a bit of time (I can rake windrow over to merge it with another one at 7-10 mph rather than having to bale a skimpy row at 3-5 mph).

Aaron Z

 

[phalynx]

Your tractor has enough power and weight to handle a baler. Its the $$ that don't make much sense. I too looked into it and just couldn't make the $ work. What I learned from my research. First, a baler a machine that requires a lot of maintenance. Second, you want to buy new for a baler because you have no idea the real condition of a baler. You could buy someone else's nightmare. Balers are also quite dangerous.

After lots of research, if I baled my place and about 100 other acres, my per bale cost would be between $20-$24. That is about what it costs to have someone else bale your property. You wouldn't have any maintenance then either.

I, like you, have the 5E Limited tractor and I would really love to hear this thing working. Its sounds incredible under load. A baler would certainly put a load on it.

It just didn't make sense for me. Have you checked into someone baling your place for you?

 

[AKfish]

I think I'd get a mower conditioner as it is faster and negates the need for a rake as it conditions the hay and puts it into windrows. Great, so now all I need is a baler. I'd like to bail with net wrapping.

Am I correct in assuming that these two implements could successfully harvest hay?

Second, is my tractor capable to run these units? I have a 2009 JD 5101E Limited. 101 Horse, MFWD, 553 Loader, Only one rear remote. Two forward remotes. I have a bale spear for the loader.

Third, I know this will cost more than it's worth as I don't have enough acreage to do this for a living, but I'd rather put my hay money into equipment than into someone elses farm.

You will still need a rake. A large, round baler with net wrap will need larger windrows than just a single swath from the mower-conditioner. A new, wheel rake (JD, Kuhn, NH) will likely be in the $8,000 range.

If you have weather concerns during hay season; you should seriously consider buying a tedder. It will speed the drying and curing of your hay after mowing. And should your windrows get rained on - you will absolutely NEED a tedder to get everything dried out before it molds in place!

A new, JD round baler with net wrap will be in the $30,000 range. A new, twin rotor tedder (Kuhn, Frontier, NH) will be in the $7-8,000 range.

Small scale hay production doesn't "pencil out" real well... And it's hard work!

AKfish

 

[nue2farm]

You may want to check into having someone do the haying on a share basis. They get 60 or 70% and you get the other portion. Works fo me.:thumbsup:

 

[stravis]

To answer a few of the questions:

I'd prefer round bales as they are easier for me to handle and I have to handle fewer of them.

We have three horses, but intend to expand as well as get some cattle in the future. Currently we go through about 20 round bales a year at a cost of $70 - 100 per 1600 pound bale. Hay can be found cheaper, but I'd rather get the good stuff for my horses.

I feed Bermuda grass exclusively. That is what I buy now and I have a pretty good stand of it on my property. One field is ready to bale, it's in great shape. One is pretty bad and I'll have to burn it, seed it and it'll likely be a couple of years before it would produce. Another field is close to ready. It has a fair stand of bermuda now, but I'd have to overseed and do some weed control to get it right.

I have no idea what my place could produce. I have potentially about 25 acres that I could hay. I'd probably only use about 15 or so.

I have discussed with a few hay suppliers about having them come out and cut / bale my fields. None of them currently bale near me and for such small acreage, it wouldn't be cost effective for them to bring their equipment out to do it.

I've grown fairly close with my main hay supplier and he would likely help me evaluate and buy used equipment. I probably wouldn't buy new because of the cost.

I greatly appreciate all the responses and I completely understand that this would not be cost effective. It just drives me nuts to mow bermuda and leave it on the ground, then go buy a bale of bermuda. I would just prefer to put my money into equipment and do the work myself rather than put the money into someone else's farm.

So it sounds like my tractor is adequately sized to handle the equipment needed. How many remotes are necessary to run a baler? How about the rake and mower conditioner? Will all of these run on a 540 PTO (my tractor doesn't have the 1000 rpm option)? Would I be better off with a sickle mower or is the mower conditioner a good option?

Thanks for the help, guys!

 

[Duffster]

If it was me I would find a reasonable (cheap) moco and rake and hire the baling done.

You wouldn't need to spend big money on the moco or rake since cutting is much less time sensitive than baling. Rakes are simple and not to likely to let you down if maintained.

Custom balers are usually a dime a dozen, put some feelers out, I am sure you could find a couple of reputable guys that could bale it for you. I would look for someone with a big square baler if it was me.

You have plenty of tractor IMO.

 

[stravis]

I've been surprised at how expensive the rakes are, Duffster. They seem so simple, but even used, they are pricey. I will keep an eye out and can likely find a good deal at some point.

I really like the idea of the large square bales. You really don't see them around here, though. In fact, I've only seen them once and that was on a semi on the interstate. I'm sure someone is using them, but I don't know of a single hay man around here that is using them. They seem to make the most sense, though. They would stack better, and you could fit more in the same barn space. What do the bales weigh? Can you move them with a normal bale spear or do you need forks? If I end up looking at new baling equipment, I'd definitely give a hard look at the large square bales.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Is the 5101E really 101hp or is that a typo?

As for your hay question, I don't own a round baler but a decent used round baler is going to be around $10k and that most likely won't be a net wrap baler. Balers do take a lot of maintance and you really do need to understand them as if they break down when your hay is ready to bale you need to get it fixed fast and taking it to the dealer to repair isn't always an option.

I prefer a discbine over a haybine for a couple reasons. First is the speed of cut, second is that it will cut through just about anything where as if you hit a rut with a sickle bar hay bine you will most likely have to stop and clean the dirt out of it. Also they don't like dirt piles from wood chucks and such if one moves in to your field. They do the job and are perfect for a lot of people but I didn't like how slow they were. A decent used haybine with good rollers is going to be in the $5k range here. Cheaper if the rollers are shot. A disbine is going to be in the $9-10k range for a decent used unit (9' cut range).

If you have moisture in your area then a tedder is a must. I like the four basket tedder as it allows you to ted two swaths at once. Again, it is a time saver for me and the 4 basket tedder isn't really that much more then a 2 basket unit. A decent tedder is going to be around $2k here.

Now the rake is important, you need a full windrow to keep the baler happy. I am not a fan of side deliver rakes but it is all I have currently. Mine is a NH model 256 and is suited for my cutter width. It does the job and is worth around $2500. I demoed a wheel rake that would rake 18' but was adjustable to rake a smaller width also in real heavy hay. I did not like it as the field had got rained on and the grass was starting to grow up through it before I could get the rake on it. I didn't have a tedder at the time so I needed the rake to pull the hay up out of the grass and move it. It didn't do the job. I parked it and used the NH 256. What I want is a Kuhns rotary rake that will rake up to 18' into either two windrows or one big windrow. Rotary rakes do a great job of raking and flipping the hay to dry evenly and give a great windrow for the baler. The Kuhn 6002 rotary rake was around $16k new a few years back and around $10k used for a decent one.

If your really paying $70-$100 for round bales in your area I think you might be better off starting to buy hay from some other area and trucking it in and selling what you don't need. This way you can maybe make some money and don't have to spend $30-$40k on used equipment.

Also, haying with one tractor is a pain in the butt. Two tractors are better for any hay operation unless your small enough to be able to cut all your ground in one day. If you have to keep hooking up and unhooking implements it gets old. Best of luck to you and hopefully you will find something that will work for you.

 

[BryanM]

Just my 2 cents worth! First I dont do hay for a living and only do a small amount. less than 1000 smalls a year. I have a moco, hay rake, wagon and baler. Most of my stuff is antique style 14t baler, 1209 mower, 350 hay rake. But I found all the stuff at auctions and paid very little for them.

You can get older hay equipment and get the Job done at no where near the cost of what other posts have said. Yes you will need to be a little mechanically inclined. And not in a huge hurry, meaning you may need too stager your cuttings so your not cutting all 25 acres at once. So you can take a bit of time to get your bales put away.

Now saying all of that, You better believe if I was doing hay for a living I would by new or newwer equipment to make sure I could do as much hay as fast as possible with min. break downs.

Before you make any decisions do your self a favor and search this site for small hay ventures.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Just my 2 cents worth! First I dont do hay for a living and only do a small amount. less than 1000 smalls a year. I have a moco, hay rake, wagon and baler. Most of my stuff is antique style 14t baler, 1209 mower, 350 hay rake. But I found all the stuff at auctions and paid very little for them.

You can get older hay equipment and get the Job done at no where near the cost of what other posts have said. Yes you will need to be a little mechanically inclined. And not in a huge hurry, meaning you may need too stager your cuttings so your not cutting all 25 acres at once. So you can take a bit of time to get your bales put away.

Now saying all of that, You better believe if I was doing hay for a living I would by new or newwer equipment to make sure I could do as much hay as fast as possible with min. break downs.

Before you make any decisions do your self a favor and search this site for small hay ventures.

You are right in that you can buy equipment for a lot less then what has been posted. But with that comes a lot of risks as you said and if you are not good with repairs on the spot then all you accomplished was spending a lot of money and still have to buy hay. The joys of haying

 

[stravis]

Great information, Robert in NY. Thank you. I've heard a lot about the Khun equipment, but haven't really looked into them. I'll have to check them out and find a local dealer. It sounds like a rake is a must. I wasn't aware that a baler required larger rows. I thought without the rake I'd just have to make more passes. Yes, the 5101 is 101 engine hp (82 at the PTO).

 

[BryanM]

Totally agree with Robert that you need to be handy with a wrench and willing too learn about your equipment especially with older equipment. I have been doing hay for a very short time but the lessons that I have learned are- I dont care weither the equipment is new or old haying is work, The degree of work has to do with the equipment you run yes. But in general haying is work!

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Great information, Robert in NY. Thank you. I've heard a lot about the Khun equipment, but haven't really looked into them. I'll have to check them out and find a local dealer. It sounds like a rake is a must. I wasn't aware that a baler required larger rows. I thought without the rake I'd just have to make more passes. Yes, the 5101 is 101 engine hp (82 at the PTO).

You can bale smaller windrows but with balers a good consisten windrow is the most important thing and with round balers you want your windrow to fill the entire pickup of the baler. The more even the windrow the better bale you make.

 

[stravis]

I'm not scared of work. I enjoy it and am looking forward to it, really. I dearly love learning new trades like this.

I'm fairly mechanically inclined. I don't know much about hay equipment, but I'm pretty good at figuring mechanical equipment out and being able to fix it. It would take a while, but I think I can figure it out.

Thanks for the help, BryanM. I'm definitely leaning towards older equipment for all except maybe the baler. I've seen some slightly used smaller round balers in the $10,000 range (I don't know if they were net wrap or not). That seems reasonable, but I'd likely go older on the other equipment seeing as how this is a small scale operation and wouldn't be used too hard.

 

[Mike120]

For Bermuda you don't need a moco. It gives you zero advantage and it's just something else to break. You can cut it with a used sickle mower (maybe $1,000) and rake it the next day with a used NH 256 (maybe $1,200) and bale it on the third day with a used round baler (Maybe 12,000). If you fertilize it, watch your ph, and get rain, you'll likely get 4 cuttings of between 1 & 2 rounds per acre.

 

[stravis]

Mike120, is a sickle not much slower than a moco? I've also read that a sickle doesn't cut as well, that's why I've been leaning toward a moco. I'd much prefer going with the cheaper sickle if it will do the job without having to mow so slow that it takes 4 days to cut the fields.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Mike120, is a sickle not much slower than a moco? I've also read that a sickle doesn't cut as well, that's why I've been leaning toward a moco. I'd much prefer going with the cheaper sickle if it will do the job without having to mow so slow that it takes 4 days to cut the fields.

Unless your going to a disc or drum type cutter then a moco or haybine is generally a sickle cutter with a reel to feed the grass into the cutter bar and crimpper rolls to crimp the hay as it goes through. The cutter is the same as a simple sickle mower.

 

[stravis]

Goes to show you how little I know about this. Thanks again.