cylinder size and other Q's

[Gittyup]

This was originally posted under attachments. But, I only got a few comments, and since it's really more about hydraulics, I thought I'd post here.

I just got a new CMI 1 ton trailer, 6 ft model, tandem wheels. I also added the manual hydraulic jack lift kit. I had read posts about the 7 footer not being able to dump steep enough due to the overhang length. That is one of the reasons I bought the 6 footer. I expected it to dump higher.... Wrong. It seems CMI chose a jack that provides only a shallow lift angle. I presume this is, in part, related to limiting travel to correspond with the limits of the 7 footer. To complicate matters more, the 6 footer doesn't have enough counter weight behind the wheels to make manual dumping ever an option. I can barely lift the empty bed by hand; and it's dangerous. So, I bought an option that's not entirely useful. CMI could do better here. They really should offer a true hydraulic setup that dumps as high as possible for a given trailer length.

To use it as intended I need it to dump fully. So, I'm considering switching to a hydraulic lift that will run off my machines. I have a couple of questions, and I'm looking for advice.

Seems easier to add a single action (SA) solution (hydraulic up, gravity down); don't have to have perfect closed length. If so:

Can I use a dual action (DA) as an SA?
Will it be safe?
How fast will it fall?

Second issue relates to tractor capacities. I have a Kioti CK25 with rear remotes and a JD 425 AWS garden tractor with 2 sets of remotes forwards of the foot pan.

Can the JD operate the cylinder? Source enough fluid? Tank big enough?Speed? The JD hyd. specs are 4.5 gpm, 1000 psi. Would a dual action work if the JD has too small a tank for SA?

The CK25 produces 2700 - 2900 psi (I think). Does this mean that I will need to use a min of a 3000 PSI cylinder?

Is a 2 inch cylinder sufficient for this trailer?

What about cross contamination of fluid between the Kioti (hydraulic fluid) and the JD (hygard hydrostatic fluid) as I switch back and forth between them?

I appreciate the inputs.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Seems easier to add a single action (SA) solution (hydraulic up, gravity down); don't have to have perfect closed length. If so:

Can I use a dual action (DA) as an SA?

Yes, just put a breather in the line that won't have fluid flow thru it. I like to use an in-line fuel filter for a breather filter. They are cheap and work well. many single acting cylinders are nothing but a dual acting cylinder with a breather.

Will it be safe?

Yes, as safe as a double acting.

How fast will it fall?

A load of variables here. Cylinder bore, line diameter, valve arrangement, just to name a few. If it drops too fast, you could always install a fitting with a restricted orifice.

Second issue relates to tractor capacities. I have a Kioti CK25 with rear remotes and a JD 425 AWS garden tractor with 2 sets of remotes forwards of the foot pan.

Can the JD operate the cylinder? Source enough fluid? Tank big enough?Speed? The JD hyd. specs are 4.5 gpm, 1000 psi. Would a dual action work if the JD has too small a tank for SA?

We would need many more details, mainly about the dump trailer and the cylinder on it. A dual acting cylinder would work if the tank capacity was too low.

The CK25 produces 2700 - 2900 psi (I think). Does this mean that I will need to use a min of a 3000 PSI cylinder?

To be on the safe side, yes. 2700-2900 is where the relief valve kicks out.

Is a 2 inch cylinder sufficient for this trailer?

You would have to provide a ton more of details, but a 2" bore cylinder does have quite a bit of power.

What about cross contamination of fluid between the Kioti (hydraulic fluid) and the JD (hygard hydrostatic fluid) as I switch back and forth between them?

I would run the hy-gard in both units. In my experience, I have found that you can put tractor fluid (hy-gard) in for hydraulic fluid, but not the other way around.

I appreciate the inputs.[/QUOTE]

 

[dfkrug]

Good list, Wayne.

Gittyup, the CK25 implement pump delivers 8.5 GPM at about 2500psi.
I have verified this pressure by guage on my CK30.

 

[Gittyup]

Thanks for the inputs; much appreciated.

Still leery of mixing fluids. The Kioti is a manual tranny. The hydraulics and tranny share the same fluid. The JD is Hydrostatic, also shared. Won't the hydrostatic fluid (hygard) cause problems for my manual transmission? It sure does seem to be much thinner.

I'm thinking to use a 2.5" bore, 1.5" shaft, 18" travel cylinder rated at 3000 psi, connected close to mid-point on the trailer. The JD is 1/4" quick couplings, and the Kioti is 1/2" quick couplings. I think I'll add hoses permanently mounted to the JD that bring the remotes to the rear of the tractor and convert them to 1/2" QC. This keeps the trailer hose lengths to a minimum and makes for quick connections.

Another dumb question: Are all the same size quick connects interchangeable? Say 1/2" ISO A vs. 1/2" ISO B, for example?

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Thanks for the inputs; much appreciated.

Still leery of mixing fluids. The Kioti is a manual tranny. The hydraulics and tranny share the same fluid. The JD is Hydrostatic, also shared. Won't the hydrostatic fluid (hygard) cause problems for my manual transmission? It sure does seem to be much thinner.

Maybe the Kioti guys can answer better, but if the tranny and hydraulics share the same fluid, I would think that it's tractor fluid. Tractor fluid is your hy-gard, no matter what the JD guys say. On the label of the pails in my shop are the same specs as on a pail of hy-gard. Even if the Kioti is hyd fluid in the tranny, tractor fluid would not harm it one bit. I know of quite a few contractors that got sick of stocking different fluids, so they just stock tractor fluid and put it in everything that calls for hyd oil.

I'm thinking to use a 2.5" bore, 1.5" shaft, 18" travel cylinder rated at 3000 psi, connected close to mid-point on the trailer. The JD is 1/4" quick couplings, and the Kioti is 1/2" quick couplings. I think I'll add hoses permanently mounted to the JD that bring the remotes to the rear of the tractor and convert them to 1/2" QC. This keeps the trailer hose lengths to a minimum and makes for quick connections.

Another dumb question: Are all the same size quick connects interchangeable? Say 1/2" ISO A vs. 1/2" ISO B, for example?

No, ISO-A and ISO-B are totally different. Off the top of my head, there are at least 8 or 10 different common style q.d.'s.I know that DHH has some info on this on their website, Holmbury is a manufacturer that has some good info.