D03 valve -vs- manifold flow rates, and series flow route

orangetree · Apr 30, 2022

Hyvair style D03 (ISO 4401) size valves&manifolds seem in common use for small TLB applications (summit kits for rear remote & port multiplier, w.r.long 3rd function kits).

It seems that D03 spec valves are spec'd for ~16gpm or higher (plenty, my tractor has 7gpm)
But all the D03 manifolds are rated for 5gpm https://hyvair.com/hydraulic/manifolds-subplates/hyvair-standard-manifolds/, https://hyvair.com/hydraulic/manifolds-subplates/miniature-manifolds/

Is the 5gpm per valve (probably just fine for my application) or is that for the power-beyond flow through the whole manifold?
manifold plumbing: I assume (but cannot find a definitive answer) that each valve is in series, thus my open-center platform's PB flow flows through ALL valves in the block, in series, even if none are activated.

My concern is that with the manifold (apparently) rated for only 5gpm total flow, and especially since I'm considering a 6 valve manifold, I'm concerned about excessive pressure drop across all the valves, since this new valve block will obviously be in-line with the rest of my system. Issue? non-issue?

Thanks!

oldnslo · Apr 30, 2022

D03 valves have 1/4” ports so with 6 valve series D03 manifold you would be flowing through 6 valves P to T and several inches of 1/4” drill paths. I suspect you will see the pressure loss in your system when at full flow.

out of curiosity what are you trying to build that requires a 6 station manifold?

orangetree · Apr 30, 2022

oldnslo said:
out of curiosity what are you trying to build that requires a 6 station manifold?

The constraints that are leading me to a single large manifold are:

space. i'm pressed for it. I could bolt ~whatever to the ROPS, but I don't like that solution (interferes with view of implement/ground on that side, and if i were put anything up there i want it to be a toolbox). if I'm getting custom hoses made I might as well make well-integrated. I can fit this manifold on the inside of the fender, next to the transmission.
simultaneous circuits: My understanding (still have question out to the mfg and to summit) is that withINthis manifold, i can use multiple valves at once - whereas downstream I cannot (PB flow stops), so i'm interested in doing this all in a single manifold, rather than just adding to the RR's I have.
- the kioti factory RR valve does not allow pressurized tank; use of the valve fully interrupts PB.

My intended circuits are:

3 circuits for a Top and Tilt
- two dedicated for the lowers
  - (yes, i know most control just one link. I want to control level of both sides of the blade without adjusting the 3pt (which is VERY rough on my tractor - known limitation of the kioti).
  - I *hope* to make a controller for this. In my day job I do software/controls in a different field, I think it would be a fun project, and I would get a fair amount of use out of it leveling and grading (with the controller keeping the finished surface level even with tractor driving over bumps).
  - I do not have to remove my 3pt arms for backhoe, so I want to hard-wire these cylinders (no quick connects) - once I'm buying & mounting the manifold, an extra valve is not that consequential all said and done; and it will take up much less space since i can avoid the QC and the bulkhead mount.
- one quick connect for the upper, since that comes off for the post auger
two other circuits for my other attachments (BH needs one, snow blower needs two simultaneously)
dedicated circuit to 3rd function for grapple, avoiding the cost of having a discrete valve up on the loader.

Can condense that to 5 if 6 is too tight of a fit. And I can remove/sell the factory rear remotes at that point, too.

orangetree · Apr 30, 2022

oldnslo said:
D03 valves have 1/4” ports so with 6 valve series D03 manifold you would be flowing through 6 valves P to T and several inches of 1/4” drill paths. I suspect you will see the pressure loss in your system when at full flow.

Not 100% sure I'm reading the flow chart correctly, but perhaps I am given I also come up with a "bad" number:

standard valve for my application would be a #2C I believe.

This is curve #3 on the P->T path (normal operation / no valve in use)

OUCH - that's ~50 psi per valve pressure drop at ~7gpm

or, 300psi (~12% of my total pressure) lost across 3 valves, disregarding manifold losses.

Does it look like i read this correctly?

orangetree · Apr 30, 2022

I suppose I'd need to go with D05 series if I go with this plan:

model #2c in D05 (passes through PB in center) is curve 6 P->T pressure https://hyvair.com/wp-content/uploads/catalogs/d05solenoid.pdf

Thats only ~15 psi per valve at 7gpm, seems manageable.

orangetree · Apr 30, 2022

the other part of my question is flow pattern IN the manifold - are the valves in series?

The datasheet confused me - the header says "parallel circuit" (not what I want) but the model number has S in it (circled, purple) - not defined in Hyvair's doc, but at some distributors this is called out as Series flow.

Looking through product listings, it appears both "series-circuit" and "parallel circuit" can be ordered. Hyvair's datasheets make it seem like parts of the line are series-only or parallel-only (?)

oldnslo · May 1, 2022

Will try to answer some of your questions.
1) pressure loss: yes it looks like approximately 50 PSI P to T. Note that does not include any loss through the manifold
2) manifolds are typically either all series circuit or all parallel. With series flow from tank of first valve supplies pressure of 2nd valve so that you can run more than one function simultaneously. Note that each function must have a cylinder moving or motor turning to allow flow in and out to next valve. Pressure is also cumulative so if 1st require 1,000 PSI to operate and 2nd function also requires 1000 PSI your inlet pressure would be 2,000 PSI.
3) If using solenoid operated valves there will be no feathering of functions unless you use proportional style valves.
4) tank ports of your valves must be rated for system pressure since in series circuit they will be pressurized.

orangetree · May 1, 2022

oldnslo said:
Will try to answer some of your questions.
1) pressure loss: yes it looks like approximately 50 PSI P to T. Note that does not include any loss through the manifold
2) manifolds are typically either all series circuit or all parallel. With series flow from tank of first valve supplies pressure of 2nd valve so that you can run more than one function simultaneously. Note that each function must have a cylinder moving or motor turning to allow flow in and out to next valve. Pressure is also cumulative so if 1st require 1,000 PSI to operate and 2nd function also requires 1000 PSI your inlet pressure would be 2,000 PSI.
3) If using solenoid operated valves there will be no feathering of functions unless you use proportional style valves.
4) tank ports of your valves must be rated for system pressure since in series circuit they will be pressurized.

Thank you; that confirms how i was thinking about the flow, and would be an improvement over the existing remotes + additional remote/grapple

The biggest sticking point now is size - D03 fits great, D05 is nearly twice the size

which would be tough.

I guess all the off the shelf versions i see use D03 and just pay the pressure drop - but they are only using or a couple valves.

oldnslo · May 9, 2022

How often do you run full throttle for extended periods of time? If seldom then will rarely see full flow in the system.

MH49 · May 11, 2022

The other problem with a DO3 is that is essentially a industrial valve you are putting in a hostile environment on your tractor. MOST D03 are on/off too and when you go to proportional, they get spendy and you don't have a whole lot of control.

I would consider a mobile orientated sectional valve like this one from Surplus Center 6 section valve. (I can't figure out from the SC website is if it proportional or not.)

Also, keep in mind your controls need to be weather proof as well.