Dangerous Kubotas...(long)

[Bird]

Anytime I don't think my brakes are capable of locking the wheels, that puppy will be in the shop in a minute./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

del, you say the pedal felt "hard" but didn't brake the tractor. How much pedal travel? Is there a possibility you have something hung in the linkage under the floor that prevented proper pedal travel? Just a thought.

Bird<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Bird on 8/14/00 09:07 AM.</FONT></P>

 

[PaulB]

del ... I hear you. You may recall from my post on my rotary mower jacknifing ("up on 2 wheels...) that the most recent time this happened I detected a problem before there was a real problem, and went to get off the tractor so I could free up the mower linkage. I too found that the parking brake allowed the tractor to roll down the (admittedly rather steep) hill. This is on my HST model. I can not remember if I put it in neutral or left it in low range, but the fact of the matter is the "parking brake" neither parked not braked the tractor. All I could do was watch it roll on down the hill slowly but persistantly.

 

[art]

I'd expect that you will be on the phone or returning the tractor to the dealer with this to get the brakes fixed. Your tractor has a unique problem that someone missed at the dealership prior to delivery.

 

[Richard]

Interesting timing for this conversation.

I rented an L-35 this past weekend. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Unit had ~325 hours on it and if thumping tires was an accurate test, only air in tires, no ballast. Using it to dig up 2 stumps and move some "boulders" from hillside to house for landscaping.

Backhoe: I have NEVER operated a backhoe before (ever). Found the hoe to be very herky/jerky. I gotta admit that the tractor dug ~5 feet down, never balked and all while only at idle, that was kinda neat. I found if it was above idle the hoe would swing VERY fast. Guess my nimble fingers were just too heavy on the controls. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif I was able to dig up the stumps, crab the machine left/right and also able to pull some boulders out of the "quarry" pit to above ground where the bucket could pick them up. /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif

Picking up bolders: These were large, most fit within confines of bucket, though most of them filled entire bucket and were single trip each. Going back & forth to quarry to house I tried to estimate slope of hill. Though I am honestly clueless, it was less than 45 degrees. Was it 20 or 30 degrees? I don't know.

I did find out a couple of things I LOVED on the L35 (hoe/bucket/canopy cover) and a couple of things I **HATED** on it.

Primary dislike: going up the slope I dropped from 3rd to 1st gear to take it slow, in between gear changes, Del is right on, dang thing hits neutral and starts to freewheel backwards, though for only a couple of feet it was enough to get my heart pumping /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif. When the gear engaged I was rolling backward with wheels suddenly stopping and turning forward, causing a baby wheelie. I also found between maybe 4th/5th gear there was a dead spot /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif, maybe a neutral though I doubt it, probably just an adjustment situation, none the less, as I was at the base of hill heading up working my way down from 8th gear (on the pavement) I found this mythical neutral and went backwards again. /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif

Second dislike, though missed top billing by only hair: Brakes were terrible in my novice opinion, NOT what I was expecting. /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif

We have an old International Harvester 444 that has terrible brakes, I have to intentionally PLANT my effort into the brake to make that stop. This L-35 was just as bad. When I was on the slope I created the pattern to shift gears of change into forward/reverse at same time of stabbing the brake on, that paused the freewheel of the machine while transmission changed direction. When we were studying the rock situation (while on slope), I had to just stand on the brake to keep the machine in place, found it VERY tiring and wore my leg out. /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif

I gotta say that I did like using the machine in that it is the only tractor I have ever used other than the I/H 444. Much quieter, cleaner, easy starting, less smoke, bh/bucket and the flat deck...

That said, my riding mower is a hydro with pedal similar to L series, I think this experience of MLTC (momentary lack of total control) during gear/direction changes has sealed the fate within me of the HST/GST question, /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif HST all the way.

 

[W5FL]

Del,

My brakes are absolutely wonderful on the M6800. The engine is strong enough to take off with them fully on, but if you touch the clutch, it will stop very quickly when you remove the engine torque. They hold on pretty steep downhill slopes very nicely and it is the first tractor that I have had that would actually stop on a steep slope. Mine is a gear tractor.

Yes, the brakes are immerced in the hydraulic fluid in the axle, but they are intended to be operated in UDT or Super UDT. I would sure have them checked. They are suppossed to be adjusted at 50 hours, but don't know if all dealers actually do this.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Thanks for the post.

The backhoe situation you experienced is normal. I've used another backhoe for 17 years (just as property owner) and when I started using the L35 it was the same way it is a FAST HOE! I had to use it at idle for awhile, still do sometimes to "get up to speed". Switching to any other hoe it takes some time to get the feel of the controls. Start out if you have a pond by moving water, when you can do it without spilling you're getting good!

That was something I didn't mention also, when I was on the slope (minor slope) my leg was also getting tired just holding me. On any slope at all I would consider this a gear tractor and make sure you are already in the lower gear or use the brake pedal. Of course since the brakes are so bad even that becomes a challenge! /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

L35 Brake Test

Today I went out and did nothing but play with the brakes on the L35. The pedal doesn't seem out of spec freeplay wise but I tightened it anyway, still allowing for no drag on wheel. (Sure is nice to have outriggers to put down to test wheel spin!) I don't think that improved the brakes really, but it did raise the engagement spot up, which lessened my knee angle, which makes it "feel" like I'm pushing with less strain.

When using the turning brakes each wheel WILL skid in gravel but not on hard dirt (too much traction!). Tractor does turn though so I'm assuming that's normal. One thing I did discover was after a whole bunch of tests on a slope. This may be a normal situation because of the design of the brakes, or may I have gone insane, but I am convinced it takes much less braking force to hold this on a hill if I'm pointed downhill then pointed uphill. Granted, you don't normally put a tractor down a slope hoe-first, yesterday I was in a situation where I had to do something that way and couldn't get below it. That was when I couldn't hold it in place.

I built a ramp to "play" on and with the slope such that I had the hoe bucket about even with my eyes the tractor would stop and hold (even with the parking brake) easily with not much effort. I could release brakes, apply, release etc, and not even be tired.

The Ford brakes are a lot more grabby I guess, like trailer brakes when you have the controller adjusted too high.

The business with the "neutral" freewheeling between shifts I'll just have to accept I guess until an HST L35 comes out.

I do find it disconcerting though, HST or GST, that Kubota has found it unneccessary to put somesort of park lock on these transmissions. Even a manually engaged pin or something, as the HST's will go down hill also if the brake doesn't hold, or some little kid gets on and steps on the brake pedal, releasing the parking brake.

I don't know what the brakes are like on the BX2200, I don't think I've ever used them! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

del [email]oldcarparts@mygarage.com [/email]

 

[Alan W.]

Re: L35 Brake Test

My L3650 GST Freewheels between shifts also. It is rather dangerous on steep slopes as I said in a previous post. I have had the tractor slide completely down a hill because of this problem, went to down shift, tractor freewheeled, trans finally caught, tires started sliding, and as anyone knows a sliding tire has very little traction. This was in 4 wheel drive, I must admit on a very steep slope though.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: L35 Brake Test

One of the times mine slipped it was probably my fault (partly). That slider on the GST has a hell of a lot of spots where it is in NO gear but the shifter will stay there. It should be spring loaded so that if you move it, it goes in SOME GEAR either higher or lower than you wanted but SOME GEAR. I just thought I'd be more comfortable with that shifter sooner, I find myself battling it somewhat with all those notches and its unwillingness to move easily. Again it may be my own GST inexperience, I always try pulling it easy then harder and harder till it goes about 2 gears farther than I wanted.

Everything takes time I know, but even when I rented an excavator that had partially backwards-from-my-ford, Kubota etc digging controls, in a couple of hours I was operating it well enough I wouldn't have minded if someone watched!

This seems more difficult, and with the popularity of the L35 as a rental it must be interesting for those newbies.

That pause between engaging is probably something to reduce stress on the transmission and on your neck. We just have to learn to be in the right gear sooner than we need to be I guess.

Tractors are still pretty simply electrically (thank god). I'm sure there's a way to make this better, i.e.automatically engaging brakes in between shifts etc etc.

I know the first rule of using a GST, and the problem with this as the lever is down and out of sight is to learn to put it in low or N EVERYTIME you stop the tractor, I've already done the start off in 4th or 5th momentarily scare yourself silly routine.

I'm wondering if not using the clutch on this thing is all that good of an idea. Practice, Practice I guess /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I have this dread that the day I get masterful with this (if THAT ever happens!) I'll find out the L35 HST is a reality, WITH PARK-LOCK AND FRONT BRAKES!/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

My wife who had 0 tractor hours, has become quite the tractor girl on the BX in about 10 hours of use.

And to whoever (was it Wen?) who mentioned the trick about putting the bucket down before taking it out of 4WD...I LOVE YOU! No kidding, the single benefit in that tip makes a FANTASTIC difference! Before I would struggle, cuss, actually pulled the knob off once and was able to reattach it, strain my back, strain my patience.

Now I put the bucket down and sometimes I actually see the front tire move, releasing the windup. The 4WD lever can be moved with one finger!

Thanks!

del

[email]oldcarparts@mygarage.com [/email]

 

[Rowski]

Re: L35 Brake Test

del,

My HN 2120 also doesn't brake as well going backwards down a hill. Forwards is not bad. But I have had the backhoe on for most of the time. With the hoe on, the loader on, and loaded tires it weights about 8500 LBS.

I wonder if the difference in braking (forward vs backward) is due to a shoe setup for the brake system. I have know idea if the use shoes or pads. Does anybody know?

When I was looking at tractors I went to a JD dealer that also sold Kubota. He had a used 40ish hp gst cab tractor I was looking at. The salesman told me he doesn't like the gst because the shifting (speed shifter). He basically told me what you told the forum about shifting. I didn't ask about the brakes.

There is a guy in town who has a landscaping business with an L35. I don't see him a lot but when I do I will ask him about his brakes.

Hope you get your saftey issues solved soon!

Derek