Tiller "DARK HORSE" Tillers

[xlr82v2]

Maybe I am in a minority but I think it is time to stop trashing equipment with "made in China" labels. There is plenty of junk equipment made in this and other countries and the Chinese have clearly demonstrated their ability to make high quality goods. Any particular piece of equipment could be crap depending on what quality the marketers specified in their negotiations with a Chinese manufacturer of course but I would not accept the bias that "made in China" implies inferior product.

I think you may have jumped the gun a bit here.

I own a KKII tiller and a KK finish mower. Zero problems with either, although I've only had the tiller since this spring. But, I've had the finish mower for 8 seasons now, with only minor/normal maintenance required, and zero problems with the chinese gearbox on it.

I did not bash any chinese quality in this thread (although there's plenty of evidence that the Chinese bashing is well deserved in some instances, but not all...) I just said to keep in mind that the tiller that I myself and LOTS of other people on here praise highly has the geartrain manufactured in China... as an "attention getter" to those who may bash the "dark horse" equipment. They likely have the exact same geartrain as the KK's that they copy.

My comment about the front axle on the Deere is not about the quality of the Chinese built Dana axle, but rather lamenting the fact that such an established American company has sold out to source their parts from the cheapest manufacturing location that they can find, while still demanding top dollar for that green paint like it was still made in the USA by American workers. I might cast my dollar votes for the green stuff if it said "Made in USA" on all of the components, but when everything says "Made in China" all over it, and it's painted JD Green and Yellow... there's no way in hades that I'm going to pay what they're asking for their Chinese built machinery. It just isn't going to happen. And, I've been a JD fan since I was old enough to reach the pedals on our old 4020.

It's this Corporate greed that is going to be the downfall of the good ol' USA...this quest for the almighty dollar, whatever the cost. China is going to get 99% of all of our manufacturing jobs, then when the time is ripe, they will cut us off, and we'll be standing here with our pants down, utterly defenseless. Better get a copy of Rosetta Stone or whatever, and start learning Chinese.

Besides, IslandTractor, you seem to be awfully defensive of the Chinese and anything with those huge "Made in China" labels on them... what's up with that... where are you coming from? What's the deal? Where's your pro-American spirit?

 

[IslandTractor]

I think you may have jumped the gun a bit here....Besides, IslandTractor, you seem to be awfully defensive of the Chinese and anything with those huge "Made in China" labels on them... what's up with that... where are you coming from? What's the deal? Where's your pro-American spirit?

I know that your post was not a China bashing exercise and I apologize if you took my response as directed against you.

I frequently work in Asia. I'm here now. I see first hand what has been happening here over the past twenty years and it is very impressive. I read a lot of jingoistic comments on TBN regarding US vs China, Korea, India made quality and I have become sensitized to it and probably do react a bit quickly. It is not that I am not pro US, it is more that I think the xenophobic bashing is just plain counterproductive. I don't think we (USA) are doing ourselves any favors at all sitting back and pretending we are the best and everything else is inferior or suspect in some way. We did not improve Detroit's output by bashing Made in Japan stickers and we certainly will not improve whatever we need to in order to remain leaders by bashing the Chinese.

As far as being a consumer, I will generally buy the best value I can find. Frequently that is an Asian product these days so there may well be a Dark Horse tiller in my barn one of these days.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Maybe I am in a minority but I think it is time to stop trashing equipment with "made in China" labels. There is plenty of junk equipment made in this and other countries and the Chinese have clearly demonstrated their ability to make high quality goods. Any particular piece of equipment could be crap depending on what quality the marketers specified in their negotiations with a Chinese manufacturer of course but I would not accept the bias that "made in China" implies inferior product.

As I mentioned earlier, once upon a time, it was a "given" that anything made in Japan was junk. Gradually, over time, they have earned the reputation as one of the leaders in quality products. China will no doubt gradually work their way up the ladder. I'm with you on this one. Until I see that any item is in fact, JUNK, the point of origin means NOTHING to me. I've seen more than enough evidence of total JUNK that was produced right here in the industrial giant US of A.

And, if I'm not mistaken, the gearboxes of previous efforts from King Kutter. even those tillers assembled in the US, were manufactured in abroad. I'm thinking China there too. My KK II tiller has seen far more use and abuse than would be considered "normal" and it hasn't so much as whimpered. No way I'm going to cross the DARK HORSE (KK II/China) tillers off the list unless someone can show me inconclusive evidence where they're "junk".

 

[xlr82v2]

I just found something on my kitchen table that really puts a knot in my shorts... so I just had to put it on my flatbed scanner and let you all see it too.

It might be trivial, but this really, really irks me.

It's stuff like this that makes my blood pressure go up when I see that HUGE "MADE IN CHINA" logo. It's not enough to be stealing away American jobs, but they have to rub your face in it too...

 

[Baby Grand]

I've had both good and bad experiences with "Made in China". A lot of the bad experiences were screaming at me to avoid them, but the $ difference clouded my judgement. Sometimes you can tell just by looking at the stuff that it's poorly designed or made. Sometimes it looks fine, but you find out during use that the welds are shallow or the steel is inferior, that there was inadequate heat treat, etc.

I have a $59 Chinese floor jack that I bought at Ames 25 years ago that is still going strong - the cylinder doesn't even leak down with a car on it, despite years of neglect (the jack, not the car).

In my mind, the Dark Horse brand is aptly named - it's an unknown, a crap shoot. You have to hold your nose and bite or wait until someone else takes a bite and watch their face carefully. Even though it may look exactly the same, there's no way of knowing if:
1) the gears are made to the same AGMA quality level as the KKII.
2) that the materials used are as good.
3) that the assembly skill is as good.
3) that the quality inspection level is as good.

Good quality demands QA inspectors who are encouraged to find and contain defective product so it doesn't enter the marked before it gets repaired or scrapped.

The KKII tiller has earned a reputation in this part of the web for being a capable and reliable product. I suspect that that is due, in part, to having a lot of built in "margin". It's stronger than it needs to be to do it's advertized duty. Dark Horse could probably sacrifice some of that margin and still produce a product with a relatively failure free record. It may even be a superior product. Time will tell.

-Jim

 

[Glowplug]

I guess I will try and ask again. Does anyone know if these DH tillers come in a 7-foot width? I've got a feeling they don't; but if they by chance do I'm heading to TSC with checkbook in hand as soon as I find out.

 

[Baranx4]

I don't think the dark horse will come in a 84" model as I haven't seen a KK in one at tractor supply. I went to the tractor supply web site and punched in the part numbers for the 5 and 6 footer that someone posted and it came up invalid. For $900 that's a steal for the tiller. Half the stuff you buy today is made overseas and it comes down to the quality control of the supplier.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

My comment about the front axle on the Deere is not about the quality of the Chinese built Dana axle, but rather lamenting the fact that such an established American company has sold out to source their parts from the cheapest manufacturing location that they can find, while still demanding top dollar for that green paint like it was still made in the USA by American workers. I might cast my dollar votes for the green stuff if it said "Made in USA" on all of the components, but when everything says "Made in China" all over it, and it's painted JD Green and Yellow... there's no way in hades that I'm going to pay what they're asking for their Chinese built machinery. It just isn't going to happen. And, I've been a JD fan since I was old enough to reach the pedals on our old 4020.

It's this Corporate greed that is going to be the downfall of the good ol' USA...this quest for the almighty dollar, whatever the cost.

Just my view on this.... its not Corporate greed driving this trend..its PERSONAL GREED. Look at it this way, Deere (and everyone else) are outsourcing offshore to STAY Competitive... Do you or anyone else go out to any store looking to pay top dollar? Nope.. All things being equal...Established Brand, Good Service, Etc... 99.99% of the people will choose the cheaper of the two. If Deere built their compacts 100% American, it would probably cost 85k for a 3520 and Kubotas would still cost the same as they do now...both are top shelf machines with a good dealer base..Which one you gonna buy?

My 100% Offshore Makita Cordless is tougher then a box of nails....yet a co-worker who's a HF addict goes thru a Cordless from HF Every 6 months... Like has been said...as long as its speced out the same, it should be equally as tough...Luckily they broke ground on a new TSC 2 miles up the road, so I might have a new addition to my implement lineup...

I've got my own opinions on why America isnt competitive anymore, but I aint touching that with a stick!

 

[tctractor]

Man, $900 for a six foot tiller based on a well respected KK model. That is unbelievable. I'll get one the second if they make it to any TSC within a 150 miles of here.

Where is the TSC where you found these in stock?

Medina, OH

 

[Glowplug]

I don't think the dark horse will come in a 84" model as I haven't seen a KK in one at tractor supply. I went to the tractor supply web site and punched in the part numbers for the 5 and 6 footer that someone posted and it came up invalid. For $900 that's a steal for the tiller. Half the stuff you buy today is made overseas and it comes down to the quality control of the supplier.

I'm sure you're right. I know the KK's don't come any wider than 6'. I guess just wishful thinking. I COULD get a 72" tiller but the outer edges of my rear tires would likely leave a small imprint at the edge of the tilled area. I guess I could also just bring the rears in some (they are set at the widest option) but I DO like the extra stability. I don't know. Maybe I'll just get a 7' (84") tiller somewhere like C&C Machinery.