DDR German Shepherd Dogs the pure GSD

   / DDR German Shepherd Dogs the pure GSD #1  

Hillbilly

Platinum Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2000
Messages
851
Anyone ever read about these dogs?
DDR GSD's are from the Deutshe Demokratishe Republik or East Germany

DDR DOGS & DDR DOGS IN GENERAL" are extremely interesting and fascinating. The German Shepherds from that region of Germany were definitely the most popular of the working breeds. They were also the most conspicuous breed on the winners podium at the working dog trials there. Being the most commonly used breed for defense duties in all levels of government, they were a favorite and trusted dog as a home companion and guardian also. The groundwork was laid not only for the preservation and development of a working dog, but also for "schutzhund", which is today one of the worlds' most popular and useful working dog sports, which has in turn been the foundation of all successful police, military, and working dog programs in existence and a wellspring of talented animals for use in the public service.

By the beginning of the second world war, the German Shepherd Dog breed become very popular in Germany, and numbers and quality were increasing, however WW2 would prove devastating to the breed by the disruption of food supplies. Plus many dogs were recruited forcibly into the military. Untold numbers were lost, but there were many dogs that did survive by being fed what little food was available.

At the end of WW2, Berlin was split in two, the rest of the country was divided into an east and west zone, the capital city of Berlin was located far into the interior of communist East Germany. East Germany and East Berlin remained under Russian and communist control until 1989 and 1990. During the first 40 years of separation of East and West Germany, the east and west German Shepherd Dogs, began to follow their own different paths out of necessity and circumstance. The East Germans had little or no access to the dogs in West Germany because a combination of political, bureaucratic, sociological, and perhaps most importantly economic separation prevented much intermingling of the bloodlines. Thus the DDR dog remained PURE.

Although now increasingly rare and with many lines unfortunately extinct, there are still enough East German bloodlines in the United States and in Europe to serve to increase the genetic diversity and vigor of the breed of the DDR German Shepherd Dog, and to retain much of the original characteristics of the breed, while offering very good working ability, a more robust and well-pigmented dog, and improvement by a reduction in both the incidence and the severity of hip dysplasia.
 
   / DDR German Shepherd Dogs the pure GSD #2  
Hillbilly,

My initial reaction is that someone is trying to sell DDR GSDs over "normal" GSDs. Sounds like marketing hype to me. I don't know how a dog can be more pure over others. The dog either meets the standard or does not. I don't know what purity they are talking about.

I would be curious to know more about the dogs though....

I have a "normal" GSD and she is the most intelligent and loyal animal I have every known. She seems "pure" enough for me... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Later...
Dan McCarty
Will this thread spin into My Dog Is Better Than Your Dog? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Taking bets..... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
 
   / DDR German Shepherd Dogs the pure GSD
  • Thread Starter
#3  
These are the dogs preferred for the most part along with the Czech bloodlines for police work. I have GSD that is the typical Rin Tin Tin looking dog.The GSD's do not all look like this,the Germans set a higher Standard, each dog over there that is registered has to be by a dog warden and on they have a lot of competiton to screen the dogs called Schutzhand. A lot of people thing the American dogs are bred for showing where as the European are more working dogs.
Go to Leeburg.com and look.
Or go to the web and type in DDR or east german German Shepherd dogs or working German shepherds etc.use a few keywords and you will be suprised what you learn,these strains of GDS are high dollar dogs.

Look at these 4 sites: ddrgsd.com
vonstealth.homestead.com
leeburg.com
http://members.tripod.com/~altaego/
http://www.gillsgermanshepherds.com/

Look it over and see what you think.
 
   / DDR German Shepherd Dogs the pure GSD #4  
I've owned 2 GSD, the first was a GSD/lab mix and was the best dog I've ever owned. Elsie (my current GSD) is AKC registered is a bit hyper/agressive but is VERY trainable and protective of the family. My understanding of what we consider "traditional" GSD is actually the American bred dog as opposed to the European bred dog which is what is the DDR. Marketing? yeah, probably.


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   / DDR German Shepherd Dogs the pure GSD
  • Thread Starter
#5  
well, all GSD's are pure<G>...my oldest DDR dog was born in 1982, before the Berlin wall came down. He came here when he was 5, literally "snuck" into W Germany. (as were ALL our "DDR" dogs)At that time the US gov't and the AKC did not recognize East Germany, so you could not register an East German dog with the AKC. So, what would happen is it would get arranged with a W. german person to register the dog in W. germany, (there WAS contact with East/West)get W. German, or "SV", registration papers and THEN you could register the dog with the AKC, though they were "Breeding Enrolled" only, and had no AKC #, just breeding status (no show, either)
Once the Berlin Wall came down and Germany was unified, they absorbed the DDR dogs into the SV. There were actually 2 East German registries, only the DDR kept its paperwork intact...no dogs from the other registry were accepted, sadly for a number of American (and others) who wanted an import, and after the wall the influx was huge & cheap, because the government border dogs were no longer needed. These were mostly dogs from the other registry and a lot found their way over here. They were NOT like the GSD's we talk about about when we talk about DDR dogs. They were prey man-dogs, bred to hunt & kill. Fortunately, for the most part they were unregisterable.
The Czech registry seems to be in a similar situation, it used to be if you had a Czech dog with FCI (International European regulating agancy) stamped Czech papers the AKC would accept it, like our first Czech dog, but again, the gov't border dog influx and "creative" paperwork, made the AKC put Czech dogs on its "not registerable" list. I don't know how they get registered here, now.

The East German dog was a large, massive, super-pigmented, big-boned, big headed dog, too much bone, but they came along when the Canto Arminius influence had robbed the breed of a lot of its masculinity. A couple of lines were incredible hip producers, though held in high regard as work lines, most lines are very in tune to their handler, not handler hard dogs at all i.e. Don Rolandsteich, Lord Gleisdreick, Robby Glockeneck (I'm blessed to have owned son & dtrs of all 3) Zorro v lagerwall<sp?>, (exception: the Ritterberg dogs, very serious(my toughest DDR lines)). They were a real asset for the gene pool, but please remember...their roots are the same as all GSD's...simply GSD as it started in WG>BG:)))
 
   / DDR German Shepherd Dogs the pure GSD
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Not all European German Shepherds are considered DDR.They say the DDR are a harder dog to handle because of the drive and a lot of them are not marked the same.I would say there is more to it than marketing,why else do the trainers of police dogs (a lot anyway go straight to Germany and hand pick there dogs when there is a ton of them here?) I am not an expert on GSD but have been doing a lot of reading and there is a lot of controversy in the GSD club of America,with people wanting them to change there standards to be aligned with the German Standard or a world wide standard.Go figure..........
 
   / DDR German Shepherd Dogs the pure GSD
  • Thread Starter
#7  
I might add these are borrowed words on the previous post. I do not even own a DDR GSD.I do have an American with German Bloodlines.
Wonderful dog a little over a year old.
 
   / DDR German Shepherd Dogs the pure GSD #8  
There are actually very few dogs from the DDR left. The system that created these dogs is, in fact, gone (absorbed into the SV). Some of the bloodlines survive, but most have been mixed. E.g. there are several dogs in my schutzhund club with the Lord Gleisdreieck line mixed with the Troll Boesen Nachbarschaft (Fero Zeuterner Himmelreich) line. I think a lot more of a similar system remains in the Czech Republic, which is why so many police departments are shopping there.

My own dog is all West German working lines (Mink Haus Wittfeld, Wicko Karthago, Gildo Koerbelbach, Falco Haus Sindern). He is near the minimum size but very fast with hard, full, calm grips. He will be trialing for SchH 3 this weekend. Wish me luck.

Real German Shepherds Website
 
   / DDR German Shepherd Dogs the pure GSD
  • Thread Starter
#9  
I am buying 2 DDR pups,I get my male puppy next week,from a kennel here in the states,and I have a female pup coming from Germany the end of November.
I wish you luck............../w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
 
   / DDR German Shepherd Dogs the pure GSD
  • Thread Starter
#10  
I need to follow up,I am not in Schutzhund competition,I just liked what I read and was told about these dogs.Do you know of any good reading material that covers these DDR dogs and there history etc............... And the Czech dogs,all of these old East German lines? How do you like these DDR lines,like I say they have some very good working qualities,not so much for show,but I do like the colors in a lot of them /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
There origins kinda of remind me of the cur hunting dogs of the Southern United State,different sizes and colors etc and a good strain identified and reproduced etc...................and passed on.
 
   / DDR German Shepherd Dogs the pure GSD
  • Thread Starter
#11  
<font color=blue>I do not even own a DDR GSD</font color=blue>

Not until next week anyway. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
 
   / DDR German Shepherd Dogs the pure GSD #12  
While the Eastern bloodlines (DDR & Czech) can't compete with the West German Show lines in conformation, I like the typical blocky heads and muzzles for working dogs. The DDR system gave breeders a lot of information about stud dogs because every puppy had to be evaluated before the owner could receive the papers. Each dog was titled and evaluated prior to breeding. The system rejected dogs that were unfit for breeding due to temperament or conformation. As I said in my previous message, that breeding system is long gone. The current German breeding system has been updated, but does not have exactly the same priorities as the old DDR system. There is no comparable, enforcable breeding system here in North America. I would trust a breeder more if he said he was using "DDR bloodlines" than if he said he would sell me "a DDR dog". Do your homework, and Caveat Emptor.

I have seen some excellent working dogs from the Eastern bloodlines. I have also seen a few dogs that were really too edgy to be safely deployed in public. I am talking about dogs that could not meet the temperament standard (i.e. pass BH and SchH 1 tests) no matter what training they receive.

If you post information on the dogs you are buying (breeders, sire and dam and their pedigrees, titles, etc.) I will tell you what I know about them, if anything.


Info on the DDR Progeny Evaluation System

RealGSD Site GSDInfo Good info and depth if you look.

DDRGSD-L site I haven't really looked at this.

GSD Pedigree Research site Might be an alternative to believeing everything you're told.

RealWorkingDogs site information page
 
   / DDR German Shepherd Dogs the pure GSD #13  
Oh yeah, Werner Dalm wrote an excellent book about the German Shepherd Dogs of East Germany. If you read German fluently then it covers everything you want to know. It is called "Die Zucht des Deutschen Schaeferhundes in der ehemaligen DDR".

About Werner's Book
 
   / DDR German Shepherd Dogs the pure GSD #14  
One of the leading GSD authorities anywhere is Ed Frawley who owns Leerburg Kennels. If you have any GSD questions and want a very educated answer, go to his website @ www.leerburg.com. You'll find tons of info there plus a discussion forum and his personal e-mail address. He answers all his own e-mail - usually within a few hours if he is around. I own one of his dogs. Unbelieveable.
 
   / DDR German Shepherd Dogs the pure GSD
  • Thread Starter
#15  
2 sites listed here I have not seen before
The 1st one you listed: Info on the DDR Progeny Evaluation System and GSD Pedigree Research site.But thanks, it is more information to look at!!!!!!!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gifI am really excited to get these pups and see what they turn out to be,I am not into training and competition other than what I do in my back yard(nothing against these sports I would like to see a Leeburg video and learn)I have a Leeburg catalog and they have a lot of interesting stuff in there,a matter of fact reading his catalog and what the man had to say helped kindle my interest in these fine dogs.
Thanks to you as well tractor pete. I appreciate the leads....
Have either one of you looked at the website of the kennel in South Africa called "Alter Ego"? They have some nice looking dogs there.

Later!!!!
 
   / DDR German Shepherd Dogs the pure GSD #16  
I agree that Mr. Frawley has a very nice web site, and he certainly displays a lot of good information there. I can find little to disagree with in his training articles. A few of the things I see on his site make me curious, though. Perhaps none of these items appear too important.

- He claims to be one of the finest working GSD breeders in the world. What does that really mean? When I hear that phrase I think of a man like Juergen Ritzi (vom Koerbelbach breeder and working dog judge) who has bred, trained, handled and judged dogs that have competed at the top levels, and now appear as foundation dogs in working GSD pedigrees, including some of Mr. Frawley's dogs.

- He claims to have bred over 250 litters in 23 years. That is an average of 10.8 litters per year. Maybe 60 to 100 puppies per year that he sells at $1800 each. Is this a breeding program or a puppy mill? I have purchased a puppy from a German breeder, and had it flown here and cleared through customs, all for less money than he charges.

- None of the testimonials are from the owners of the "top dogs" who he says come from his breeding program.

- There were no "vom Leerburg" dogs entered in any of the schutzhund championships in the USA this year, despite his claim that some of the top dogs in schutzhund come from his kennel. Funny, I can't remember any from last year, either. Or the year before that, or ...

- Neither of the litters described on his web site today would be registerable in Germany. In both cases neither the sire nor dam have working titles, and in the first litter the 2-2 inbreeding on the grandfather is too close (i.e. the sire and dam have the same father).

- Many of the names of the dogs on his web site are misspelled, especially in pedigrees. He refers to Greif zum Lahntal (pronounced as if it was spelled Grife) as "Grief" when he tells you he tries to line breed on him. I say good grief, if you bother to do all that typing why not try to get it right.

- The kennel name "vom Leerburg" sounds just like the German kennel "vom Lierberg" which produced several famous dogs that appear as foundation animals in many working GSD pedigrees.


My best advice is to know what you want from the dog you are buying. All puppies are cute, and it doesn't mean anything. If all you want is cute then save your money and get a dog from the SPCA. Check the paperwork (parent's pedigrees, scorebooks, hip certifications, show cards, breed survey reports, etc.), but look at the dog, its parents, and other close relatives. If you don't see what you are looking for in the dogs then don't take a pup home with you.
 
   / DDR German Shepherd Dogs the pure GSD #17  
Dave......you're begining to sound a little ****. If you have issues/questions/comments about Frawley's site, why don't you take it up with him and get answers b/4 floating BS and innuendo on this site behind his back? Be a man. Send him an e-mail.
 
   / DDR German Shepherd Dogs the pure GSD #18  
Pete and dave,

Jeez guys! Can't we all just get along? Enjoy your GSD's for what they are, not where they came from or what philosophy their breeder espouses. Now, I want you two to go pet your dogs and tell them you love them /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. Oh, by the way, My dogs better than your dog, my dogs better than yours. My dogs better cause he eats Ken-L-Ration, my dogs better than yours!

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<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by wal on 10/24/01 12:43 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
 
   / DDR German Shepherd Dogs the pure GSD
  • Thread Starter
#19  
Can't we all get along?????????? Rodney King /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
woof woof arf arf bow wow /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
I did not mean to start a free for all./w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif
 

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