DDR German Shepherd Dogs the pure GSD
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Anonymous Poster
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While the Eastern bloodlines (DDR & Czech) can't compete with the West German Show lines in conformation, I like the typical blocky heads and muzzles for working dogs. The DDR system gave breeders a lot of information about stud dogs because every puppy had to be evaluated before the owner could receive the papers. Each dog was titled and evaluated prior to breeding. The system rejected dogs that were unfit for breeding due to temperament or conformation. As I said in my previous message, that breeding system is long gone. The current German breeding system has been updated, but does not have exactly the same priorities as the old DDR system. There is no comparable, enforcable breeding system here in North America. I would trust a breeder more if he said he was using "DDR bloodlines" than if he said he would sell me "a DDR dog". Do your homework, and Caveat Emptor.
I have seen some excellent working dogs from the Eastern bloodlines. I have also seen a few dogs that were really too edgy to be safely deployed in public. I am talking about dogs that could not meet the temperament standard (i.e. pass BH and SchH 1 tests) no matter what training they receive.
If you post information on the dogs you are buying (breeders, sire and dam and their pedigrees, titles, etc.) I will tell you what I know about them, if anything.
Info on the DDR Progeny Evaluation System
RealGSD Site GSDInfo Good info and depth if you look.
DDRGSD-L site I haven't really looked at this.
GSD Pedigree Research site Might be an alternative to believeing everything you're told.
RealWorkingDogs site information page
I have seen some excellent working dogs from the Eastern bloodlines. I have also seen a few dogs that were really too edgy to be safely deployed in public. I am talking about dogs that could not meet the temperament standard (i.e. pass BH and SchH 1 tests) no matter what training they receive.
If you post information on the dogs you are buying (breeders, sire and dam and their pedigrees, titles, etc.) I will tell you what I know about them, if anything.
Info on the DDR Progeny Evaluation System
RealGSD Site GSDInfo Good info and depth if you look.
DDRGSD-L site I haven't really looked at this.
GSD Pedigree Research site Might be an alternative to believeing everything you're told.
RealWorkingDogs site information page
Anonymous Poster
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Oh yeah, Werner Dalm wrote an excellent book about the German Shepherd Dogs of East Germany. If you read German fluently then it covers everything you want to know. It is called "Die Zucht des Deutschen Schaeferhundes in der ehemaligen DDR".
About Werner's Book
About Werner's Book
Anonymous Poster
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One of the leading GSD authorities anywhere is Ed Frawley who owns Leerburg Kennels. If you have any GSD questions and want a very educated answer, go to his website @ www.leerburg.com. You'll find tons of info there plus a discussion forum and his personal e-mail address. He answers all his own e-mail - usually within a few hours if he is around. I own one of his dogs. Unbelieveable.
2 sites listed here I have not seen before
The 1st one you listed: Info on the DDR Progeny Evaluation System and GSD Pedigree Research site.But thanks, it is more information to look at!!!!!!!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gifI am really excited to get these pups and see what they turn out to be,I am not into training and competition other than what I do in my back yard(nothing against these sports I would like to see a Leeburg video and learn)I have a Leeburg catalog and they have a lot of interesting stuff in there,a matter of fact reading his catalog and what the man had to say helped kindle my interest in these fine dogs.
Thanks to you as well tractor pete. I appreciate the leads....
Have either one of you looked at the website of the kennel in South Africa called "Alter Ego"? They have some nice looking dogs there.
Later!!!!
The 1st one you listed: Info on the DDR Progeny Evaluation System and GSD Pedigree Research site.But thanks, it is more information to look at!!!!!!!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gifI am really excited to get these pups and see what they turn out to be,I am not into training and competition other than what I do in my back yard(nothing against these sports I would like to see a Leeburg video and learn)I have a Leeburg catalog and they have a lot of interesting stuff in there,a matter of fact reading his catalog and what the man had to say helped kindle my interest in these fine dogs.
Thanks to you as well tractor pete. I appreciate the leads....
Have either one of you looked at the website of the kennel in South Africa called "Alter Ego"? They have some nice looking dogs there.
Later!!!!
Anonymous Poster
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I agree that Mr. Frawley has a very nice web site, and he certainly displays a lot of good information there. I can find little to disagree with in his training articles. A few of the things I see on his site make me curious, though. Perhaps none of these items appear too important.
- He claims to be one of the finest working GSD breeders in the world. What does that really mean? When I hear that phrase I think of a man like Juergen Ritzi (vom Koerbelbach breeder and working dog judge) who has bred, trained, handled and judged dogs that have competed at the top levels, and now appear as foundation dogs in working GSD pedigrees, including some of Mr. Frawley's dogs.
- He claims to have bred over 250 litters in 23 years. That is an average of 10.8 litters per year. Maybe 60 to 100 puppies per year that he sells at $1800 each. Is this a breeding program or a puppy mill? I have purchased a puppy from a German breeder, and had it flown here and cleared through customs, all for less money than he charges.
- None of the testimonials are from the owners of the "top dogs" who he says come from his breeding program.
- There were no "vom Leerburg" dogs entered in any of the schutzhund championships in the USA this year, despite his claim that some of the top dogs in schutzhund come from his kennel. Funny, I can't remember any from last year, either. Or the year before that, or ...
- Neither of the litters described on his web site today would be registerable in Germany. In both cases neither the sire nor dam have working titles, and in the first litter the 2-2 inbreeding on the grandfather is too close (i.e. the sire and dam have the same father).
- Many of the names of the dogs on his web site are misspelled, especially in pedigrees. He refers to Greif zum Lahntal (pronounced as if it was spelled Grife) as "Grief" when he tells you he tries to line breed on him. I say good grief, if you bother to do all that typing why not try to get it right.
- The kennel name "vom Leerburg" sounds just like the German kennel "vom Lierberg" which produced several famous dogs that appear as foundation animals in many working GSD pedigrees.
My best advice is to know what you want from the dog you are buying. All puppies are cute, and it doesn't mean anything. If all you want is cute then save your money and get a dog from the SPCA. Check the paperwork (parent's pedigrees, scorebooks, hip certifications, show cards, breed survey reports, etc.), but look at the dog, its parents, and other close relatives. If you don't see what you are looking for in the dogs then don't take a pup home with you.
- He claims to be one of the finest working GSD breeders in the world. What does that really mean? When I hear that phrase I think of a man like Juergen Ritzi (vom Koerbelbach breeder and working dog judge) who has bred, trained, handled and judged dogs that have competed at the top levels, and now appear as foundation dogs in working GSD pedigrees, including some of Mr. Frawley's dogs.
- He claims to have bred over 250 litters in 23 years. That is an average of 10.8 litters per year. Maybe 60 to 100 puppies per year that he sells at $1800 each. Is this a breeding program or a puppy mill? I have purchased a puppy from a German breeder, and had it flown here and cleared through customs, all for less money than he charges.
- None of the testimonials are from the owners of the "top dogs" who he says come from his breeding program.
- There were no "vom Leerburg" dogs entered in any of the schutzhund championships in the USA this year, despite his claim that some of the top dogs in schutzhund come from his kennel. Funny, I can't remember any from last year, either. Or the year before that, or ...
- Neither of the litters described on his web site today would be registerable in Germany. In both cases neither the sire nor dam have working titles, and in the first litter the 2-2 inbreeding on the grandfather is too close (i.e. the sire and dam have the same father).
- Many of the names of the dogs on his web site are misspelled, especially in pedigrees. He refers to Greif zum Lahntal (pronounced as if it was spelled Grife) as "Grief" when he tells you he tries to line breed on him. I say good grief, if you bother to do all that typing why not try to get it right.
- The kennel name "vom Leerburg" sounds just like the German kennel "vom Lierberg" which produced several famous dogs that appear as foundation animals in many working GSD pedigrees.
My best advice is to know what you want from the dog you are buying. All puppies are cute, and it doesn't mean anything. If all you want is cute then save your money and get a dog from the SPCA. Check the paperwork (parent's pedigrees, scorebooks, hip certifications, show cards, breed survey reports, etc.), but look at the dog, its parents, and other close relatives. If you don't see what you are looking for in the dogs then don't take a pup home with you.
Anonymous Poster
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Dave......you're begining to sound a little ****. If you have issues/questions/comments about Frawley's site, why don't you take it up with him and get answers b/4 floating BS and innuendo on this site behind his back? Be a man. Send him an e-mail.
Wal
Silver Member
Pete and dave,
Jeez guys! Can't we all just get along? Enjoy your GSD's for what they are, not where they came from or what philosophy their breeder espouses. Now, I want you two to go pet your dogs and tell them you love them /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. Oh, by the way, My dogs better than your dog, my dogs better than yours. My dogs better cause he eats Ken-L-Ration, my dogs better than yours!
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by wal on 10/24/01 12:43 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
Jeez guys! Can't we all just get along? Enjoy your GSD's for what they are, not where they came from or what philosophy their breeder espouses. Now, I want you two to go pet your dogs and tell them you love them /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. Oh, by the way, My dogs better than your dog, my dogs better than yours. My dogs better cause he eats Ken-L-Ration, my dogs better than yours!
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by wal on 10/24/01 12:43 PM (server time).</FONT></P>