Bird,
A little bone-pickin' here: [[[Sometimes it's difficult to avoid generalizations, stereotypes, etc. And so far, I've stayed out of this discussion (well, actually not a discussion; just a diatribe) of lawyers because I'm guilty of the same thing with doctors. ]]]
I think your use of the word "diatribe" to describe the views of some other posters is probably accurate, ...especially mine. (don't know if you were aiming at me, or I got hit by a stray).
My problem is with your characterising the comments as "JUST" a diatribe. "Just"? , ...as in "only( i.e. nothing else)"? Seems a little high-handedly dismissive.
My dictionary defines "diatribe" as a "bitter, abusive, denunciation".
No problem there.
The character/behaviour/cost to society of attorneys and their "practice" of the laws they pass (guess to whose advantage?!) are enough to make (and have made) many people "bitter" (read any popularity polls lately?).
Justifiable bitter people are likely to "abusively" "denounce" their embitterers.(the "abuse" is often deserved, and as to the "denunciation", ...what should they do, praise and applaud?
Notice that the definition of "diatribe' does NOT include " without-merit", "unreasonable", or any other deprecating phrase.
If a "discussion" was desired, it seems that a statement of a differing viewpoint, perhaps addressing points individually, would be more of a contribution than a belittling waving-aside of what other list-members have expressed.
[ Yes. There are undoubtedly some fine people who are attorneys. But it's the bird-poop (pardon the expression) all over my car that's causing me concern, not the shiny spots here and there in-between. My opinion of lawyers IN GENERAL is what results in my attitude towards them.]
-back to the thread theme of "deadly force" -
Regarding police officers:
Let me state emphatically that I have nothing but respect and appreciation for GOOD officers, and support them wholeheartedly, in their attempts to do a very difficult and dangerous job.
Please read that last statement again!
Now, ... as to there being "good and bad in every profession", let's not kid ourselves that a "bad" shoe-salesman is the threat that a "bad cop" is.
Contrary to my statement above, about "good" officers, ...I believe that "bad" cops are one of the absolutely worst things in our (or any ) society.
The uncertainty as to which you are confronted with on any given occassion is what makes the "Officer Friendly" image of the police appropriate only for the naive, and for children.
For the record, I have had no police problems PERSONALLY during my life, other than a traffic ticket now and then. Never been arrested, don't take drugs, ...straight arrow. But I don't really "trust" the police.
Why not?Was raised to respect and admire them. "Bad cop" wasn't part of my world. But my experience/knowledge of them now is based on a career of over 10,000 emergency responses to scenes where police presence/action was frequent. I also know personally some who have been/are policemen, or who have participated as swat-team members, or accompanied these teams on busts/raids (as I have myself).
Anyone who thinks that the behaviour you will witness while the officer has an observer in the car (the ride-along friend. relative, reporter, etc.) is exactly what always takes place when there are no witnesses present is simply clueless.
It is very dangerous to have armed men in your house where they are likely to be the only ones telling the story after something goes "wrong".
For things to go "right" those men have to have the highest character, best training, and extremely well-defined limits to the use of their considerable force. And a leadership determined to uphold the highest standards of police behaviour.
These conditions are not always met. And abuses/criminal acts take place every day. A citizenry either watches-closely/controls its police agencies, or trusts blindly that "It won't happen here".
I realize that I probably will take some heat for making these statements, which to some will seem "politically incorrect". I could support them with numerous examples, but they would be lost on anyone who wants/needs to believe that all cops are "good guys" and "heroes".
Many of them are, of course, and that is the reason for my statement at the beginning of this section.
But let's keep our feet on the ground. Riding in the car with an officer on patrol certainly does NOT tell the whole story of police activity in our society.
Here is an example of the cop you probably DIDN'T ride with. ( I don't say things like this about someone either lightly or falsely, nor am I pleased to know that it is true. But it is.)
A firefighter (supposedly) of my aquaintance had the absolute worst reputation of any of the (probably a thousand or more) fireman I have ever worked with, over a 37 year career. The man was literally a coward.(I have never used that word to describe any other person I have known.)
On numerous occassions he refused to enter a fire, climb onto a roof, etc, because he "had to go to the bathroom", "was thirsty", "his system needed more oxygen than the average person" etc. Excuses we had never heard before in hundreds of years of combined job-experience, we heard REPEATEDLY from this guy. So much for the reality of his actions!
But the STORIES he told, in a bragging, swaggering manner, of his OTHER job as a small-community deputy sheriff, were of nothing but bravery and dominance. Boy, he didn't let anybody get away with anything in HIS town!!
To get to the sad point, he applied for the police dept in a nearby large city (no one on the fire dept was ABOUT to discourage his leaving!)
While shaving one morning, I asked him how his application was going.
"Passed everything, ...only the "psyche-screen left, now".
Well, I thought to myself, either you're done-for, ...or we'll know something about that screening process.
You can guess the rest. I ran into him one more time at the station - we were on different shifts-and he said " Allright, ...I'm in ! Passed everything with flying colors1 I can't believe it, ...Getting PAID to f--- with people.!"
He literally said that!! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif
I can't believe it either. This guy is now "patrolling"(hunting?) the streets, armed, dangerous and "proving himself", having been given the trust of a community, with the responsibility of making instantaneous life/death decisions, expected to use sound judgement and treat citizens with respect.
Unfortunately, some "good" officer's life may depend on this guy, at any moment. So there is tremendous pressure on cops not to alienate other officers, good or bad. And therein lies a big part of the problem; reporting questionable attitudes/acts of a fellow officer will certainly alienate him!
Writing this is depressing, so I'll stop here. I'm sure reading it is depressing, too. Many other instances of less-than-you'd-hope integrity and flat out criminality could be told.
It is very difficult to express gratitude to our deserving police officers, such as I'm confident that Bird is, while being equally determined to rid society of undeserving ones. But a head-in-the-sand "blanket blessing" for all police just doesn't face facts.
Here's a question worth considering: How much do you know about the behind-the-scenes actions of YOUR police agency? Probably not much. You have to have been there.
Larry
