Dealer Advice from a Newbie

Varmintmist · Feb 6, 2005

Another question, what are you thinking you need 40 hp for?? You listed 15 ac in your profile, 12 in hay.

The only reason you would need 40 hp would be if you wanted to do all of your own hay. If that is the case you need as much weight in your machine as possible. The haying equipment that you would have to buy would be a whole lot of expense to cut 12 ac.

I think you may be looking a bit big.

Volfandt · Feb 7, 2005

( As far as sales I guess I am glad that they aren't as aggressive as the car dealers, (yet). Unfortunately they also seem to be a bit lazy and complacent, (sorry). Like, they have the machines, and you have nowhere else to go, and if you want it, you will buy it from them, at their price. They don't even try to go the extra yard to ask about your needs and your property, (much less visit it). )

Went through my new tractor shopping experience back a few months ago. I started out visitng every tractor dealer in my area and I will admit that I had a certain color in mind when I started. My job gets me out & about so visiting wasn't a problem and I actually enjoyed the process. I highly enjoyed testing out just about every make & model in the CUT & SubCUT class out there and talking to folks about them.
It didn't take long to start narrowing brand's down as I found the primary brand I was looking for turned out to have the less impressive support structure of all and the same poor attitude of which you posted!
I thought if presales were this bad then I'd be up the creek if & when service issues arose. I also encountered this poor customer service attitude at all 4 of this particular brands dealers.
This in turn convinced me to use how well I was recieved at each dealer as one of the primary judgment tools, moreso than price, to narrow it down further. Ironically, the two dealers I interfaced with the best carried Kubota as their primary product whilst one carried MF and the other just Toro/Wheelhorse commercial. I then made several visit's. test driving the model's I was most interested in and getting their best price's on these models. I let both know that I was shopping. When I finally secured my financing, I decided to pick the closest dealer as the pricing was just about identical and when I went to buy the B7510 w/60" MMM & FEL, at the 12th hr., I decided to give the BX23 a test and I ended up buying that puppy. My needs were primarily finish mowing with utility work a close 2nd and the BX23 just seemed to have all the capabilities I would use, albeit in a small package but they were there all the same. Although I liked the ground clearance & higher rated 3PH of the CUT, I went w/the SubCut.

Anyways, I found it important to get to know the dealer and the service techs and I walked around in each service bay talking with and watching the techs work on the the products.

And in the end, I ended up giving what I considered a substantial amount of cash money to the dealer I felt earned it and for the tractor I felt was worth it.

Good luck & enjoy the process.
Volfandt

JASTN70D · Feb 7, 2005

I have to vote also for a very hard look at the Massey. I think they stand up well with all the rest out there. In fact around here it seems the farmers like them best and they do tend to know equipment very well. I may have gone that way except the dealer was hard to even get a price from. Good luck with your decision.

farmerjim · Feb 8, 2005

your area kinda sounds like what we have here in ct. housing boom is driving land way up.i was looking into buying about 20-50 ac old farm, but w/ the prices at around a milllion for that land, thats 3 times the amount i could afford. i had to settle for alot less land, and ended up w/ only 3 ac. but i will hopefully take over my dads/grandparents 55 ac in a few years. everyone who hasn't put their land in ag or open space is making a killing selling to the developers/surburbanites who only build the mcmansion houses 2200sq ft and up. anyway enough on my rant about that. i'm in the same boat as you shopping for a small cut. i'm kinda of a green guy as thats what we've owned since i was a baby as well as a few farmalls. when i went to the jd dealer, and then to the others its basically pay the price they have listed or go out of state and save about 3k. the local dealers here were pretty straight fwd w/ me about everything. i still haven't made up my mind yet as to what i'm getting, but i may end up getting a used cut at first then move up later on.

nephromancer · Feb 8, 2005

Thanks Varmintmist, and everyone else as well

Two reasons I chose the 40 hp range.
First, that is what the dealers are suggesting and Second because I am planning on carting a lot of rock around and I thought the increased HP would equate to increased lifting capacity. Also I plan on doing some discing, although I have to admit you are right about haying. I planned on letting one of the local farmers do that. The problem is the initial investment on all the equipment needed to hay. Thanks for the feed back. I am looking at all options in the 30-40 HP range. I have been listening closely to the replies to my posts and reading everyone elses.

Thanks
Bill

rcaretti · Feb 8, 2005

( Green is the most popular farm color here but the farmettes are mostly buying Orange , and some Blue .)

I'm one of those people who went Blue .
I priced both the Kubota's and the New Holland's, but was able to get a better deal on my TC40D than the L3830. I wasn't getting very far, but got to the point of telling the dealer; here is what I can get it for online, and was going to buy online unless we could come to an arrangement that we both could live with. Don't underestimate the feeling of security that having a local dealer to call when things go wrong provides.

I don't live all that far from you (Johnsville), and I agree with pretty much everything you are saying. The whole area is changing, and we were lucky to buy our property before it became financially unreachable for us. It's still a great place to live, but it worries me what this place will look like in ten years.

I can't shake the feeling that I'm part of the problem. I moved here from a rural area in PA, and wanted that type of living here, but to get it you have to buy and build in a rural area. And by doing that you help destroy the very reason that caused you to buy in the first place.

Varmintmist · Feb 9, 2005

First, that is what the dealers are suggesting and Second because I am planning on carting a lot of rock around and I thought the increased HP would equate to increased lifting capacity. Also I plan on doing some discing, although I have to admit you are right about haying. I planned on letting one of the local farmers do that. The problem is the initial investment on all the equipment needed to hay. Thanks for the feed back. I am looking at all options in the 30-40 HP range.

OK, so you are going to disk and move some rock with a FEL and want to stay under 20K, and go with JD or Kubota.

HP does not equate directly to loader power. Compare Mahindra 3510 @ 35HP......

.............................

M112 loader (from Mahindra site)

Maximum Lift Height 109.6"

Lift Capacity to Full Height @ Pivot Pins 1972 lbs.

Breakout Force @ Pivot Pins 3343 lbs.

................................
............................. to JD 990 @ 40 hp for example.
........................
490 loader (from the JD grounds care equipment guide)

Maximum Lift Height 101.4 in

Lift Capacity 915lbs

Breakout capacity 3299lb/ft
..........................
==================================

So, you still need a tractor.

JD 790 green www.johndeere.com , TC30 blue , L2800 orange orange .

There ya go.

You will get pretty near 20K with a FEL and a MMM. You can pull a small disk, tedder, rake, backhoe, 5 foot brushhog, 6-7 foot sidemower, 6 foot backblade,....... any implement that is realistic enough to really use on 15 ac can be used by them.

The FEL is smaller but it will carry as much rock as you want to shovel by hand. If you are wanting to tear out 500lb rocks with the FEL, you dont want a tractor.

Now the 790 is 27hp, and they are all gear drive, not 30-40 but to fit your $$ guidelines you wont get a green or orange with the initial implements you want with much more power.

Dealers are there to move tractors. Like realtors and car dealers, if you dont know what you need they will put you in whatever they will make the most money on. Most tractor dealers are better than that, however I experianced more "salesmanship" (bullship??) when I wasnt sure of models than after I was.

I just priced these same tractors 6 months ago and decided that for the same money I could get more machine with the red one.

Hope that helps, if you come up with any other uses for the machine then post them. For what you want to do, IMHO those will do the job.

nephromancer · Feb 10, 2005

Thanks Varmint

I don't have any Mahindra dealers in the immediate vicinity of 21773 zip. As I may have already said or as you may have seen in my posts, I have looked at the LG Montanas as my low cost alternatives to the big 3 and my issue is service and dealer proximity. I guess if I wait long enough there will be a Mahindra dealer nearby but I need the tractor this year. I did browse the Mahindra site last week though. I gather you are pleased with the tractor. How up to date are they technology wise?? Some of theirs look pretty basic, ( which may be a good thing I grant you)

I am thinking about a HST and I realize that will increase cost and force me down in HP if I have any hope of preserving a budget. The KB did not charge the same kind of premium on HST that the JD and NH were asking, they only added $500K to the GST price and as I recall the others were $2-3K extra, I need to go find my quotes to be sure.

My next stop is my local Massey Dealer. I am going to get him to come out and look at the jobs I propose to do and have him "fit me for size".

BJ

getut · Feb 10, 2005

I have the same problem. Dealing with dealers is a distasteful task for me and one I try to avoid at all costs. I, like you, also actively TRY to avoid brand loyalty and will always strive to spend my money with whoever has the best combination of price/performance at the time I am buying. Brand loyalty wastes the buyers money and encourages complacency from the company that is a recipient of that money. I despise marketing and sales, but I guess that frame of mind stems from the fact that I am a computer, network, and network security professional. Everything bad that has EVER happened in that industry sector (and IMHO nearly every other sector) stems from marketing and sales departments, marketing in particular.

In nearly every market out there, it is the geek or enthusiast or engineer, that does things correctly, and marketing and sales that comes behind and messes it up.. either pushing something out before it is ready, or exaggerating a featureset or lately in computer and electronics industry, even using colorful language to make lost features or user lockouts seem like a feature or protection, or designing in obsolescence.

Word of mouth from people who have nothing to gain or lose is and always will be the only marketing and sales pitch that is worth a hoot... and definitely the only pitch I listen to.

Varmintmist · Feb 10, 2005

( Thanks Varmint

I don't have any Mahindra dealers in the immediate vicinity of 21773 zip. I gather you are pleased with the tractor. How up to date are they technology wise?? Some of theirs look pretty basic, ( which may be a good thing I grant you)
)
I wasnt pushing the Mahindra, it was just a real good example loader to loader referanced to horsepower. Yes I am happy with mine and the one I got gave me more for the money, HP and feature wise than the big three in my price range. If Deere or Kubota or NH would have impressed me I would have gone with them. I am not a color slave. I did not look at the HST versions because I wanted more tractor for the money and the $$ speak to gear. The HST to HST versions the big three might have more bells and whistles but in gear the Mahindra doesnt give a inch.

( my issue is service and dealer proximity. )
Outstanding reason to go big three. The dealer is probably a deal maker IMHO. If you have a good big 3 nearby and the dealer has a good rep, go for it.

""The KB did not charge the same kind of premium on HST that the JD and NH were asking, they only added $500K to the GST price and as I recall the others were $2-3K extra, I need to go find my quotes to be sure. """ /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

HOLY **** 500K!!!!!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif