Dealers Not Accepting Some Brands on Trade

[mo1]

around here Mahindra has more presence than LS, Koti, Bad boy, TYM, Branson. not on par with JD or Kubota, but closing in on NH and Massy. at the end of the day i plan to be buried by my Mahindra digging the hole so i do not care, the tractor was an investment in my happiness and has payed many dividends already.

Dealers that are not taking these tractors in trade are most likely cutting their own throats just like the auto industry did in the late 70s.

even if the mahindra brings 30% less in resale (not what is happening around here) I still come out ahead because the tractor was 30% less upfront for the same capabilities covered in green or orange paint.

parts have been cheaper also (not that i have bought that many parts).

Foreign tractors today are a lot different of an issue than foreign cars in the 1970s.

The domestic auto industry in the 1970s suffered because the various government emissions regulations introduced in that time period with little forewarning, two fuel crises, and the poor Malaise Era economy resulted in the products the domestic automakers were currently selling becoming unappealing in short order, before they could retool to make the far different vehicles that would sell well. The large, comfortable, somewhat pricey cars with powerful V8 engines that sold well when high-octane leaded fuel was cheap became slow, thirsty, expensive slugs when their engines were detuned to run on unleaded and choked with first-generation emissions equipment. Their attempts to quick-and-dirty cut costs by cutting corners in production and the crude downsizing of existing models fell flat as well. The foreign companies selling cheap little four-banger crackerboxes (other than the VW Beetle) didn't sell too many here until then, and then when all of the above hit, they suddenly were the ones that were selling what the market wanted at that minute and did well. However, the domestic industry (except Chrysler which infamously went bankrupt) recovered in the '80s once they were able to retool and build truly new models, got the bugs out of the first generation of emissions equipment and first-generation downsized models, and the economy improved to where people could afford something a little nicer than the little imported crackerboxes.

Recently the U.S. ag equipment market has had to weather a lot of the same storms the automotive industry did in the 1970s. We've had massive government emissions edicts and fuel changes come down the pike with ULSD and Tier 4 about a decade ago. We've had big jumps in the price of fuel as well. However, the major players in the U.S. ag equipment market (only one of which, Deere, is an American company, CNH is Italian and Kubota is Japanese) have weathered it well. There wasn't (isn't) that opening for somebody to come in and sell something significantly different to the market and take it over that there was in the 1970s auto market. Simply making a cheaper machine and selling it for somewhat less does have a market, but it isn't dramatic.

 

[DaBear3428]

I never tell a dealer about trades until after a deal has been made.

That’s the only way you are going to get a honest appraisal of the deal, the salesman and the sales manager never likes it, but I’m not in it to make other people happy. I only want the best deal I can get for myself.

anyone that thinks a dealer is your best friend is kidding themselves a dealer (cars, tractors, boats tiddlywinks etc) is out to put money in their pocket, and some times policies are put in place that are short sighted in order to max out profit too day and to heck with tomorrow (like the one price BS) those policies tend to make a good profit until enough people catch on and start to take their $$s elsewhere, i have been told by several car dealers that the new norm is for the customer to order the new vehicle and that the days of inventory sitting on the car lot are over. that will last only until the dealer down the street figures out that hey i can sell 2X the number of cars if i have some sitting ready to go.
when the tractor dealers start hurting for sales they they will reconsider the policies, assuming that there is some competition (if there is no competition that is another issue).

 

[DaBear3428]

Foreign tractors today are a lot different of an issue than foreign cars in the 1970s.

The domestic auto industry in the 1970s suffered because the various government emissions regulations introduced in that time period with little forewarning, two fuel crises, and the poor Malaise Era economy resulted in the products the domestic automakers were currently selling becoming unappealing in short order, before they could retool to make the far different vehicles that would sell well. The large, comfortable, somewhat pricey cars with powerful V8 engines that sold well when high-octane leaded fuel was cheap became slow, thirsty, expensive slugs when their engines were detuned to run on unleaded and choked with first-generation emissions equipment. Their attempts to quick-and-dirty cut costs by cutting corners in production and the crude downsizing of existing models fell flat as well. The foreign companies selling cheap little four-banger crackerboxes (other than the VW Beetle) didn't sell too many here until then, and then when all of the above hit, they suddenly were the ones that were selling what the market wanted at that minute and did well. However, the domestic industry (except Chrysler which infamously went bankrupt) recovered in the '80s once they were able to retool and build truly new models, got the bugs out of the first generation of emissions equipment and first-generation downsized models, and the economy improved to where people could afford something a little nicer than the little imported crackerboxes.

Recently the U.S. ag equipment market has had to weather a lot of the same storms the automotive industry did in the 1970s. We've had massive government emissions edicts and fuel changes come down the pike with ULSD and Tier 4 about a decade ago. We've had big jumps in the price of fuel as well. However, the major players in the U.S. ag equipment market (only one of which, Deere, is an American company, CNH is Italian and Kubota is Japanese) have weathered it well. There wasn't (isn't) that opening for somebody to come in and sell something significantly different to the market and take it over that there was in the 1970s auto market. Simply making a cheaper machine and selling it for somewhat less does have a market, but it isn't dramatic.

we agree on a lot of that but the parallel is that the 70s auto industry also had there heads in the sand and did not catch on that the cars they had disdain for started having appeal to the changing us market (for various reasons). to day i see the same attitude in JD and Kubota and i fully expect them to wake up to the same reality ie that there product is not worth the inflated cost over the competition or there attitude towards the customer (ie it is our way or the highway).
I disagree on the point that there is not room for competition to come in and sell something better for a better price (there always is in the free market), i think we are starting to see that now with the growth of the 2nd tier tractor manufacturers that are selling very good tractors at better prices. the same thing recently happened to Harley Davidson.

also the foreign auto manufacturers of the 70s had to deal with the exact same changing regulations and did so more successfully

i own several pieces of JD, IH and Ford/NH equipment so it is not like im down on any of them but i do observe trends and this is what i'm seeing.

i just went back and confirmed my data, when i was searching for current tractor i sent my list of requirements out to all of the likely suspects and got hard quotes among them was JD who i had an established relationship with the parts department, they quoted a 4052M which met my specifications but was less than (about 20% in the things that matter to me) the specs for the Mahindra 5145 that i bought and was 30% more expensive.
Kubota was even worse and when I went back to discuss the quote with JD and Kubota the attitude was "it is what it is" so ok i bought the Mahindra.

I am fully aware that this is my experience and someone else may have a different one but i keep hearing the same from others.

 

[Goose1776]

CAUTION: Rant ahead

Here's the other problem with taking in trades from a dealer perspective:

@Tractorable finds a Massey 285EH that he likes. Dealer A gives him the price of $ 46,000 and offers @Tractorable $8000 for his Mahindra.

Dealer B has a Massey that is similar, but optioned a bit differently and hours are a bit different. He tells @Tractorable that "The other dealer is insulting you with a $8000 trade. We will offer you $10,000 because you are smart enough to know what you have." Dealer B offers their different, but similar tractor for $48,000 and a $10,000 trade.

If dealer B gets the sale, he benefits from manipulating the numbers and dealer A loses out. So dealer A begins to play the game next time so as not to lose the sale.

The best defense against such games? Keep your trade completely off the table until you finalize the price on the new tractor. Only after that, go ahead and ask about your trade.

As rants go..
this one was short and made good sense.

 

[Lastkidpicked]

As rants go..
this one was short and made good sense.

Thank you for your kind words.

Savor the flavor, because soon I'll be back to my ornery old self!

 

[Jstpssng]

I never tell a dealer about trades until after a deal has been made.

That’s the only way you are going to get a honest appraisal of the deal, the salesman and the sales manager never likes it, but I’m not in it to make other people happy. I only want the best deal I can get for myself.

If they didn't play the games that they do, you could be more upfront about what you want to do.

 

[lilranch2001]

If they didn't play the games that they do, you could be more upfront about what you want to do.

Exactly why???

 

[Code54]

Around us, the non-Kubota/Deere/MF just don't get the money used. They may be "30% less" new but often bring 50% less used. The dealers will take them for a lowball offer due to parts concerns and the fear they may not get close to what they need out of them. The other brands don't have the name recognition that Kubota/Deere/MF has and you hear of a lot complaints about the overall quality, merited or not, they don't have a good local reputation.

 

[arrow]

My, the stories being told here.
I work at a Mahindra dealership.
We take Mahindra trades when available almost all of the time.
They do not interfere w new tractor sales but have a niche if a customer wants certain amenities at a reduced price.
Why in heavens name would you not want to gain another customer?

if we don't accept off brands, it's because we don't carry an inventory of parts necessary to fully support the sale nor do we have the expertise in the idiosyncrasies of variated brands as it applies to service. As is we have to stock parts for India made Mahindra's, South Korea made Mahindra's (Tym) and japanese made mahindras (Mitsu)

Why would you give someone a colonoscopy if you're a foot doctor?
You would have to go to Home Depot and buy some tubing that's ***** proof, A small flash light to attach to the tube and oh yes, pinchers if you find any coins the patient has swallowed.

What if you didn't buy enough tubing for those long intestinal types?
It can run into money.

 

[arrow]

I've had three dealers in the last 6 months say they won't take my 770 hour Mahindra in trade and I thought it was because it needs seals replaced which is a labor intensive job. Then I asked the owner of the Mahindra dealer that sold it to me if they'd repair it and take it back in to sell on consignment (meaning I would own it until it sold, but they'd get a percentage for selling). They weren't interested saying tractor sales were slowing. Oh, and the service department still hasn't my calls about repairing it even after speaking with the owner.

Two of the Kubota dealers said they have trouble getting parts for Mahindra. The third dealer wasn't a Kubota dealer, but said they have trouble reselling Mahindras.

Massey Ferguson used to have a good presence here in rural Middle Tennessee, but their dealer network has really dried up compared to what they once were. A friend needs the clutch replaced in his MF and can't find anyone to do it nearby.

You're not being treated right by your Mahindra dealers for some reason.
That they won't fix your tractor is baffling unless they no longer have a mechanic to put on it.
You would not be going through this if you were our customer. This is nuts to me.