The dealer is full of bull crap. Ford makes an extended cab Ranger, which you can even order with the rear seat delete. I looked at them before buying my Colorado, but am not ready to get into that 4 cylinder yet.
death of regular cab pickups
- Thread starter big bubba
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sunandsand
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Completely agree that forcing us to buy X because some authoritarian government says so is the wrong way to go.
The markets are deciding, turns out people LIKE their electric cars. They also like their solar panels, and more so every time the electric bill arrives.
I have a neighbor whose politics make Genghis Khan look like some kind of woke, flaming liberal. He has an expert opinion on EVERYTHING, even things he knows absolutely nothing about. (Once you get to know him, he's actually a pretty nice guy and a very good neighbor!)
His daughter, who is a very bright and accomplished young lady, convinced him to buy a bunch of solar cells and an inverter to make a grid tie system. He still rails about the dastardly commie-pinko-queer plot to get everyone on unreliable, unproven, unloved solar cells, but once a month he boasts about his $20 (net) power bill. After all, he has a reputation as a techno-curmudgeon to uphold, but once a month won't damage it too much.
And I happen to like steam engines. They're interesting, complicated beasts. Unfortunately, they are also incredibly dirty, take constant maintenance, and are generally a PITA. They were replaced with diesels simply because the diesels could do the same job better with much less pollution and are much cheaper to operate. The markets decided, so now railroad steam engines are few and far between, mostly in tourist attractions, and almost never found in regular service anywhere in the world. China was one of the last manufacturers of steam engines, and when a historic railroad in Oregon (I think) needed a steam engine, they had to import one from China!
I did have a ride in a train pulled by a steam engine. It was a narrow gauge railroad in Colorado (tourist attraction). The ride was about an hour long, then another hour back. It was utterly filthy - coal dust and smoke everywhere, everyone's clothes got so dirty they couldn't even be washed. It was fun though.
EVs are the same thing. In many applications and for many people, they just do a better job. They won't replace ICE vehicles 100% because we don't have electricity *everywhere*, and even if we did, the right tool for the job could easily be a gas or diesel powered machine.
Personally, I'm not going to sweat it. I'll buy the appropriate vehicle for the task, I am simply not concerned with what fuel makes it go - gasoline, diesel, electrons, pixie dust - I just don't care.
Car makers are going electric for two reasons. First is that the government is pushing them to do so for various reasons which may or may not make sense. Cities are starting to say no cars in downtown. (Gas or electric.) In some places public opinion is turning against ICE vehicles (whether that is right or wrong is open to "some" debate).
I do remember Los Angeles' air quality before emissions controls were required in cars. You could cut the smog with a knife, it was so thick you could probably have used it to replace cinder blocks. It is a LOT better nowadays, even with much more traffic. (I still have no desire to live there.)
The second reason is that people are simply starting to WANT electric cars. Tesla has a higher "bought one again" ratio than Honda, BMW and Mercedes! If the EV cars were crap, they wouldn't have repeat customers - and they do, a lot of them.
I'm sure some EV owners are "signaling virtue" or somesuch, but lots of EV customers are happy because their EVs are simply better cars than their ICE cars were, and fit their needs better.
Buy what suits your needs best. Be open to change, it may surprise you (it sure surprised me!).
Best Regards,
Mike/Florida
The markets are deciding, turns out people LIKE their electric cars. They also like their solar panels, and more so every time the electric bill arrives.
I have a neighbor whose politics make Genghis Khan look like some kind of woke, flaming liberal. He has an expert opinion on EVERYTHING, even things he knows absolutely nothing about. (Once you get to know him, he's actually a pretty nice guy and a very good neighbor!)
His daughter, who is a very bright and accomplished young lady, convinced him to buy a bunch of solar cells and an inverter to make a grid tie system. He still rails about the dastardly commie-pinko-queer plot to get everyone on unreliable, unproven, unloved solar cells, but once a month he boasts about his $20 (net) power bill. After all, he has a reputation as a techno-curmudgeon to uphold, but once a month won't damage it too much.
And I happen to like steam engines. They're interesting, complicated beasts. Unfortunately, they are also incredibly dirty, take constant maintenance, and are generally a PITA. They were replaced with diesels simply because the diesels could do the same job better with much less pollution and are much cheaper to operate. The markets decided, so now railroad steam engines are few and far between, mostly in tourist attractions, and almost never found in regular service anywhere in the world. China was one of the last manufacturers of steam engines, and when a historic railroad in Oregon (I think) needed a steam engine, they had to import one from China!
I did have a ride in a train pulled by a steam engine. It was a narrow gauge railroad in Colorado (tourist attraction). The ride was about an hour long, then another hour back. It was utterly filthy - coal dust and smoke everywhere, everyone's clothes got so dirty they couldn't even be washed. It was fun though.
EVs are the same thing. In many applications and for many people, they just do a better job. They won't replace ICE vehicles 100% because we don't have electricity *everywhere*, and even if we did, the right tool for the job could easily be a gas or diesel powered machine.
Personally, I'm not going to sweat it. I'll buy the appropriate vehicle for the task, I am simply not concerned with what fuel makes it go - gasoline, diesel, electrons, pixie dust - I just don't care.
Car makers are going electric for two reasons. First is that the government is pushing them to do so for various reasons which may or may not make sense. Cities are starting to say no cars in downtown. (Gas or electric.) In some places public opinion is turning against ICE vehicles (whether that is right or wrong is open to "some" debate).
I do remember Los Angeles' air quality before emissions controls were required in cars. You could cut the smog with a knife, it was so thick you could probably have used it to replace cinder blocks. It is a LOT better nowadays, even with much more traffic. (I still have no desire to live there.)
The second reason is that people are simply starting to WANT electric cars. Tesla has a higher "bought one again" ratio than Honda, BMW and Mercedes! If the EV cars were crap, they wouldn't have repeat customers - and they do, a lot of them.
I'm sure some EV owners are "signaling virtue" or somesuch, but lots of EV customers are happy because their EVs are simply better cars than their ICE cars were, and fit their needs better.
Buy what suits your needs best. Be open to change, it may surprise you (it sure surprised me!).
Best Regards,
Mike/Florida
OzarkChris
Gold Member
Mike, I'm not trying to pick a fight, so please don't take this that way.
A couple of things in the above statement that, albeit correct, are not very appropriate. First, take into account how many coal plants - and the jobs they represented - have been taken offline because of the "Green energy theology" of this administration or two administration's ago. Most of those jobs never went into the green energy business as promised. Second, and as you suggested in your response, mining the materials necessary for the solar industry is much, much worse for the environment than the greenhouse gas issue is. Third, concerning wind powered systems, I have a question that regardless how many times I ask it, I have yet to hear a decent answer. Here's the question: Why is it that if I happen to hit/kill a bald eagle while I'm mowing/hogging or cutting down a tree on my property, I can be fined and probably jailed if it becomes found out. The wind power folks get a pass because it's "green energy" - I typically get answers that are either non-answers, e.g., "Would you rather go back in time before electricity was invented" or "Green energy is the future, so we know somethings are going to be inconvenienced during this time of transition.". Finally, why do those who speak about nothing but green energy - I am NOT speaking about you - not consider Nuclear plants - most want them shut down. Nuclear energy is arguably the cleanest, most environmentally sound energy bang for the buck - yes hydro may be more environmentally green, but it dramatically effects wildlife, native lands, etc. - Nuclear however, is one of the most efficient - if not the most efficient - generating systems available. Solar, Wind, Ocean, etc requires so much space to generate even a tenth of the power generated by Nuclear. Odd that the EPA, Sierra club, etc hasn't required nearly the amount of research or impact requirements for wind or solar permitting that any other generation method is required.
Cheers!
D
Deleted member 371759
Guest
Diesel replaced steam because the energy density per ton of diesel vs coal is double and energy loss is not even comparable. So a train hauling goods across the nation could drive much further with a lot less human input and cost. Change is great. I 100% embrace change. When solar panel break even is under 5 years I will be first in line to buy. Right now in 2023 the break even time is 9-16 years. So you will never break even due to maintenance and repair. I heat 100% with wood and broke even after 3 years. I have no problems with EV if someone wants one thats great. Let the market decide. If the Gov. has to regulate the ICE engine to a point where they cant be produced that is definitely not market choice. The rising cost of fossil fuel is being used as a club to force people into EV that is not market choice. Thats disgusting.
ning
Elite Member
It would be good if the playing field was leveled by either eliminating or equalizing subsidies between the various energy methods - subsidies in development (including R&D & exploration & essentially free use of a limited resource) as well as in properly calculating shut-down costs (recycling, decommissioning, disposal of waste products and equipment that's no longer useful).
I suspect that the break-even point would be much better for solar & wind if the full extent of the cost of fossil fuels were actually paid by us up front.
Before you jump in, yes I'm talking about recycling & disposal costs of lithium batteries, besides other things like the increased healthcare costs due to air, water and ground pollution from the use and production of fossil fuels - and lithium mining. Very few things that we buy have their costs properly accounted for, but fossil fuels are among the worst in this.
D
Deleted member 371759
Guest
My empathetic side is all for subsidies. Without them a good portion of our fellow citizens would freeze and starve to death. I always hear the subsidy argument but its never thought through. My let them get what they ask for side is all for dropping all subsidies and watching the entire country burn. Subsidies ensure granny and pappy can heat their home with energy dense fossil fuel and also have money left over to eat. Farming subsidies ensure single mothers and poor families dont have to pay $14 for a gallon of milk. As of right now it is 100% impossible to power our country with wind and solar. So subsidizing non efficient means of power production is pretty close to insane. In my previous post I stated diesel replaced steam powered engines because diesel was better. There is nothing about EV that is better than ICE. It might make you feel better but thats all.
OzarkChris
Gold Member
Are we forgetting about all of the subsidies that the wind and solar companies get via government (tax payer) grants for land, r&d, etc?
sunandsand
Gold Member
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OzarkChris - That's one of the nice things about this forum, most of us are NOT looking to pick fights. I guess we must be grownups or something ;-)
I happen to agree with you 10,000% on nuclear. Unfortunately, even hinting at it makes people go totally nuts. France shut down their nuclear power plants (public pressure) and now they are buying electricity from Germany, which generates it by burning coal. Sigh. There are some problems with nuclear, though. First is new power plants suffer huge cost overruns stemming from interminable delays. This is a legal/permitting/procedural problem, not a nuclear specific problem. The other issue is disposal of nuclear waste, which is still unsolved.
Nevertheless, nuclear is still a contender, but social pressures make it extremely difficult.
While it is completely true that mining for solar panels is an environmental mess, once the panels are made, that's the end of that panel's adverse environmental impact (until it gets recycled in a decade or two, and solar panel recycling is starting). With coal fired power plants, the pollution is ongoing - continuous mining, transporting by rail, burning, ash disposal.
Remember that we are dealing with a LOT of emotion here. "My mind is made up, don't distract me with the facts!" There are lots of very different viewpoints, some make sense, some don't, some people have agendas, but the discussions get pretty acrimonious very quickly. Somebody once said "A burning building is not conducive to reasoned debate."
I don't have any answers about bird kills. I just don't know enough about it to take a coherent position. I will say that here in Florida, your crabgrass has more rights than you do, so illogical application of environmental (and other) rules and regulations is not surprising.
It is beginning to appear that fusion power is actually on the horizon (as opposed to being perpetually 20 years in the future). Net gain has been achieved in the laboratory, so we know the concept is valid. Now "all" we have to do is make it commercially practical. A lot of very talented, very motivated people are working on it and lots of money is being spent to make it work. Eventually, it may, and I hope it does.
Its late and I'm tired, but I do want to mention something about solar break-even times before I knock off for the evening.
Craigslist (for example) is full of ads for last year's solar panels at very reasonable prices. If you buy new, you're looking at big bucks for say, a 275 watt panel, times however many panels you need. I see older panels, 200 watts, for $50 to $75 each. Lets say you need 5KW, that's 18 of the 275 watt panels at $300 each ($5,400) OR 25 of the old, obsolete 200 watt panels at $75 each, total $1,875. So they've lost a little efficiency? Who cares, the fuel is absolutely free and is delivered daily. Of course you still need inverters and if you are off grid a big battery, but you've saved $3,500 on the solar cells and that brings break-even a lot closer. A solar power system increases the value of your home, and enlightened states (no pun intended) don't increase your tax assessment by the value of the solar power system.
This has become a very interesting thread, even if it is a bit off topic about pickup trucks!
Best Regards,
Mike/Florida
I happen to agree with you 10,000% on nuclear. Unfortunately, even hinting at it makes people go totally nuts. France shut down their nuclear power plants (public pressure) and now they are buying electricity from Germany, which generates it by burning coal. Sigh. There are some problems with nuclear, though. First is new power plants suffer huge cost overruns stemming from interminable delays. This is a legal/permitting/procedural problem, not a nuclear specific problem. The other issue is disposal of nuclear waste, which is still unsolved.
Nevertheless, nuclear is still a contender, but social pressures make it extremely difficult.
While it is completely true that mining for solar panels is an environmental mess, once the panels are made, that's the end of that panel's adverse environmental impact (until it gets recycled in a decade or two, and solar panel recycling is starting). With coal fired power plants, the pollution is ongoing - continuous mining, transporting by rail, burning, ash disposal.
Remember that we are dealing with a LOT of emotion here. "My mind is made up, don't distract me with the facts!" There are lots of very different viewpoints, some make sense, some don't, some people have agendas, but the discussions get pretty acrimonious very quickly. Somebody once said "A burning building is not conducive to reasoned debate."
I don't have any answers about bird kills. I just don't know enough about it to take a coherent position. I will say that here in Florida, your crabgrass has more rights than you do, so illogical application of environmental (and other) rules and regulations is not surprising.
It is beginning to appear that fusion power is actually on the horizon (as opposed to being perpetually 20 years in the future). Net gain has been achieved in the laboratory, so we know the concept is valid. Now "all" we have to do is make it commercially practical. A lot of very talented, very motivated people are working on it and lots of money is being spent to make it work. Eventually, it may, and I hope it does.
Its late and I'm tired, but I do want to mention something about solar break-even times before I knock off for the evening.
Craigslist (for example) is full of ads for last year's solar panels at very reasonable prices. If you buy new, you're looking at big bucks for say, a 275 watt panel, times however many panels you need. I see older panels, 200 watts, for $50 to $75 each. Lets say you need 5KW, that's 18 of the 275 watt panels at $300 each ($5,400) OR 25 of the old, obsolete 200 watt panels at $75 each, total $1,875. So they've lost a little efficiency? Who cares, the fuel is absolutely free and is delivered daily. Of course you still need inverters and if you are off grid a big battery, but you've saved $3,500 on the solar cells and that brings break-even a lot closer. A solar power system increases the value of your home, and enlightened states (no pun intended) don't increase your tax assessment by the value of the solar power system.
This has become a very interesting thread, even if it is a bit off topic about pickup trucks!
Best Regards,
Mike/Florida
D
Deleted member 371759
Guest
Just cobble together your homes energy supply with a bunch of Craigs List stuff. What could go wrong?
Nuclear does have a lot of negative issues. However, if we had continued to research it over the last 40 years rather than walk away from it; many of those may have been solved. At the end of the day there is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine.
And the OP still doesn’t have a regular cab pickup.
And the OP still doesn’t have a regular cab pickup.
deezler
Elite Member
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- Southeast MI
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Man..., just passed a late 90's powerstroke short cab, 8' bed, pulling a dump trailer this morning. Doing real work after 25+ years, body still looked perfect. Wanted to grab a pic for everyone but it was raining and fairly dark out. I just love seeing this vintage badge on the side of a clean old truck though.
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D
Deleted member 371759
Guest
My work truck
sunandsand
Gold Member
- Joined
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- Tractor
- Kubota B2601
Where's your sense of adventure? ;-)
Actually, I've found some very good stuff on C/L from time to time. One of my (too many) hobbies is restoring mid-century-modern teak furniture. People need to move and can't (or won't) take it with them, or it is slightly damaged and easily fixable. I'm able to furnish our home with some seriously nice, once quite expensive pieces for next to nothing. If you saw some of them and I told you how little I paid, you'd call me a liar to my face.
I also repair and upgrade Dynaco brand stereo equipment (70's vintage tube stuff) but lately the prices on those have inflated greatly - they think they have gold, so I pass on most of it now.
Also snagged a $600 Mercedes-specific diagnostics computer (extended OBD-II, uses all 37 pins of the 37 pin connector - tells me EVERYTHING about the car) Paid a fat $50 - didn't fit his model but works on mine. Saved me a $1,000+ A/C repair bill when it pinpointed a bad control module which I replaced with a used one off eBay for $12 instead of $450 for a new one. Heck, the car is "used" so why should I replace a non-wear item with something new at full retail? (Yes, it gets new tires and other consumables ;-)
As to solar cells to power my home, that's a goal I'd like to achieve. The electrons don't care if they come from brand new solar cells or from last year's model. The home is already built, it is very well insulated, has double pane windows, high efficiency appliances, etc., etc., etc., and our power bills don't exceed $100 a month even in the summer. (I used to be a slumlord, I paid attention, so I know lots of ways NOT to design houses.)
First step is to augment power to the hangar/workshop with solar. There's a vent fan which runs every day from April through November to keep the inside temperature within reason. That's a prime candidate for solar, it runs on hot sunny days, and is on a thermo switch so if it isn't hot in the hanger, the fan doesn't run.
Remember, if it doesn't work, I can always go back. But I do want to try, and buying used solar cells from C/L limits my risk. If I buy a brand new system and it is not appropriate, I'm out a lot of money. If I cobble something together and it doesn't work, it just goes back onto Craigslist. (Proof of concept.) If it does work, I can then decide if it works well enough to keep it OR well enough to make it worthwhile in paying for a new system.
One thing I have found is that installers always seem to raise the prices of their new systems (gotta be new to qualify for the rebates) to exactly match the state and federal rebates available. The rebates go away, and the price immediately goes down to match the lost rebate amount. This stuff isn't rocket science, and in fact it is surprisingly simple. I prefer to duck the whole financial mess by doing it myself. Our local building inspector will (hopefully) keep me from burning the house down but steel and concrete don't burn very well anyway.
What could go wrong? Lots of things, but at least if I do this myself, I know how to fix it or retreat from it.
With best regards,
Mike/Florida
Hexa Fox
Silver Member
The future was and still should be hydrogen and biodiesel. It is a scientific fact that politicians created the "need for electric". It is just like everything else, as long as Americans do not see the pollution that it takes to manufacture electric vehicles and the people overseas mining the rare Earth minerals in flip flops they are okay with it. It is funny how fast 'some' politicians went after diesel in general when knowledge started to spread to the general public that biodiesel engines could cleanly burn all kinds alternative fuels. Plus do not let anyone tell you hydrogen does not work. It is just it was too far and costly to put research into. The reason batteries were easier is because we already had a lot of research and access to minerals. So it was just adapted for motor vehicles.
TractorTYMe
Veteran Member
OzarkChris
Gold Member
Street legal? Who cares about that? I live in a state that has an ag exemption. I honestly thought that most states had/have that exemption. Tractors go pretty much wherever & whenever they want to go. 'Round here so do ZT's - yes that does mean zero turn mowers, 4 wheelers, SXSs, etc. Sheriff's office doesn't care unless you A) break down - they come out to help you get going again, B) get into an accident with injuries. We do have some signs on the hwys that say no 4 wheelers or side by sides, but they are usually put up because somebody complained about the noise - they are very rarely enforced.
I see large (read, really huge) ag tractors with huge implements and other very large farm equipment going up/down Interstate 55 20-30 miles west of Memphis. There are signs on the interstate stating to watch out for farm equipment.
These types of things are "normal" 'round here. Most people that live 'round here wouldn't blink or do a double take if they saw a garden tractor type mower, a ZT, Tractor or combine puttering up the road.
D
Deleted member 371759
Guest
I also repair vintage electronics stuff. Mostly solid state receivers I have a large love of Sansui gear and turntables but my greatest addiction is Tektronix equipment. I have found tons of Tek gear on Craigslist and 99% of it needed a total overhaul. I would love to set up solar power, but its not something I want to mess with on a weekly, monthly or yearly basis. I would like panels, inverters and batteries with a substantial warranty also guaranteed to handle hail strikes and covered by my homeowners insurance. I bought my Powerstroke diesel from a Craigslist advertisment got a great deal but it also needed $10K worth of work. I have a lot of stuff going on in my life and messing with a solar set up is not something I'm willing to devote anymore time to than I do to the power feed to me by my electric co-op.
Hexa Fox
Silver Member
Is this somehow different from other parts of the country? I live in a area that is looking more and more like Northern Virginia everyday. There is a very wealthy neighborhood next to mine with community mail lockboxes and a lot of that community elects to drive their lawn tractors down to it and get their mail lol. I see ATV's, tractors, mowers, and all kinds of other stuff on my roads daily. I am also in the boonies with a lot of farmland. Farm equipment that easily exceeds the value of my property passes me on roadways on a regular basis.
D
Deleted member 371759
Guest
Are the Ozarks different than other parts of the country... Yes
chabat124
Bronze Member
I am not a farmer, but have owned a truck for 29 years. The first one I bought was a single cab. Next thing you know, me and the missus had two kids within two years. Next truck was a used 2000 Silverado 5.3 v8 with the three doors, not a full-sized back seat. Still driving that truck. I don't wish for a single cab, as occasionally I do have people in the back seat. I'm going to hold onto this paid-off Silverado as long as I can. It's been good to me. I put about 3,000 miles a year on it. Our other cars are a 08 Civic EX-L sedan which is used most often. We walk to work (Office next door to our house. The wife and I are self-employed and work in the office together) We live in a small town of <500 people. I have a project car, a 1986 Porsche 944 that I like to drive and do my own wrenching on.
My son does work with a skid steer, self-employed. He had a single cab flatbed 04 Ram 3500 dually (pre DEF) that is his main haul vehicle and a 1999 4 door F350 (single wheel) as backup and daily driver.
Been married 28 years, two sons are 23 and 25, both married, and we have three ankle biter chihuahuas that also come to work with us most days.
Can't see myself buying a brand new truck at today's prices. I will always buy used. Unless a Nigerian prince I know nothing about sends me $20 million, but I ain't holdin' my breath for that.
My son does work with a skid steer, self-employed. He had a single cab flatbed 04 Ram 3500 dually (pre DEF) that is his main haul vehicle and a 1999 4 door F350 (single wheel) as backup and daily driver.
Been married 28 years, two sons are 23 and 25, both married, and we have three ankle biter chihuahuas that also come to work with us most days.
Can't see myself buying a brand new truck at today's prices. I will always buy used. Unless a Nigerian prince I know nothing about sends me $20 million, but I ain't holdin' my breath for that.
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