Buying Advice Deere 400 - 318 Swap

[ahriman]

Hello All- Fairly long-time lurker, first post. Bought a Deere 400 last summer and have had myriads of problems from the word go -- quite literally I have never been able to take it out, use it, and then put it away without something falling off, breaking or otherwise. That said, still love the little thing.... Long story short, after fixing, breaking, fixing, breaking, the seller has offered to take the 400 back in trade for a 318 he has. The 400 was built by him, and he replaced the original engine with an Onan 20HP - claimed hours on it <100. It also came with a rear 3-point (most of it), 54" plow and a 60" deck. Price tag $4000. Seller will also give me the same attachments for the 318.

In doing some light research into 318 values on Tractorhouse, Craigslist and eBay I am seeing 318s at roughly half the buying price of the 400.

My question is centered around the values of the two tractors, generally speaking of course since there is not a whole lot of information available to us as of yet, and if this would be a swap to consider? maybe with some cash?

Many thanx, look forward to learning and helping where I can.

 

[TheMadOne]

Bouncing back and forth between them on tractordata the 318 looks to be a lighter weaker machine. It looses a good chunk of the weight the 400 has, was sold with a 50" deck max vs the 60" on the 400. Deck is belt driven vs the shaft of the 400's.

I don't think that would be a fair trade if the two were new or of equal wear. If the 400 is such a problem child as to be unusable...then the question becomes, "Did you pay a fair price for a good machine of that caliber, or did you "steal" it?" If you paid market price for it, then you and the seller should work something out in addition to the trade. If you got it for a song, then, as long as the 318 holds up and does what you need it to do, then I would consider that a fair deal. Then again, a working lawn mower is better than a fancy green metal sculpture.

 

[kevin37b]

If he built the 400 and you have had these issues , I would look at a different seller !

 

[ahriman]

If he built the 400 and you have had these issues , I would look at a different seller !

Well, yes and no. If he were a seller that sold me a piece of crap and abandoned me, then I wholeheartedly agree with you. But he has stuck with me (albeit slow to respond at times), and done "warranty" work on the tractor for no charge, ultimately offering me this swap. To me, there is a higher premium on customer service than the product itself. You get what you pay for.

And that is what leads me to ask you all about the swap. To me, $4000 is a lot of money, and to lose equity in that investment by taking a lesser-value item is hard to swallow. If, indeed, the value is less. Going by cold, hard cash value alone it seems the 318 is the lesser value.

 

[ahriman]

Bouncing back and forth between them on tractordata the 318 looks to be a lighter weaker machine. It looses a good chunk of the weight the 400 has, was sold with a 50" deck max vs the 60" on the 400. Deck is belt driven vs the shaft of the 400's.

I don't think that would be a fair trade if the two were new or of equal wear. If the 400 is such a problem child as to be unusable...then the question becomes, "Did you pay a fair price for a good machine of that caliber, or did you "steal" it?" If you paid market price for it, then you and the seller should work something out in addition to the trade. If you got it for a song, then, as long as the 318 holds up and does what you need it to do, then I would consider that a fair deal. Then again, a working lawn mower is better than a fancy green metal sculpture.

Some very good points MadOne. Especially "paid market price for it, then you and the seller should work something out in addition to the trade" -- this is where my mind has been since I did my original research. When I purchased the 400 originally, the price seemed pretty commensurate with current market, and even a little better given the attachments. So I guess I got it for, ahem, only a few bars of a song.

Another point you bring up is in line with a long-time concern of mine: the 400 is borderline underpowered for my property and needs, so going "backward" with the 318 weight/power is a step in the wrong direction. However, the 318 + cash could put me on the path of a larger tractor.

Lastly, thank you for catching the belt-driven vs shaft drive of the 400. That in itself rockets up the list of concerns.

 

[MORRISONSTEEL]

Not to offend I am a huge JD fan and love the styling of the 400gt, but many owners of machines like this once they experience a large failure like and engine have a tendency to junk the machine as it is very difficult to re-coop your investment. That can be a difficult decision to make when you have att that will no longer be of any value so lots of times when that investment is made it is done purely as a labor of love (not profit). It is also entirely possible for a 318 to be worth more than a 400 depending on machine options (3 hyd lever machines are very much in demand by collectors) as well as overall condition. There is also better parts availability for the 300 series machines than for the 400 although both of them are getting difficult. Either way if your desire is to have either of these machines as a daily user don't be surprised if they take a fair amount of tlc to keep going. If I had the yard I would have one but I bleed that green paint.

 

[dbtechnicalserv]

If you feel the 400 is almost under sized for your yard then a 318 will definitely be under sized. JMO
I have 3 jd400's and, yes, they need more TLC and have hard to find attachments. They aren't called "black sheep" for nothing.
That said, I will never get rid of them and in fact I am always on the lookout for more, at a reasonable price of course. I didn't see what area you are in but, 4000 sounds a little on the high end for what you got.
Try to get seller to give money back or fix/repower it with 23hp for around 1700, his cost.
Just my $0.02

 

[ahriman]

Not to offend I am a huge JD fan and love the styling of the 400gt

No offense at all (to me at least).

It is also entirely possible for a 318 to be worth more than a 400 depending on machine options (3 hyd lever machines are very much in demand by collectors) as well as overall condition.

Are you saying the 318 has different lever configurations? Or are you talking about the 400? (My 400 has a 3-lever configuration.)

There is also better parts availability for the 300 series machines than for the 400 although both of them are getting difficult.

Yep, I am getting that from the forum folks here, and the seller said as much as a selling point as well. Guess there is value in that.

Either way if your desire is to have either of these machines as a daily user don't be surprised if they take a fair amount of tlc to keep going.

Yes, but there is a point where TLC and lemon cross lines. I have had to fix something on the 400 _every_ time I have used it -- that goes from TLC to lemonade methinks.

If I had the yard I would have one but I bleed that green paint.

A 318 or a 400? or a Deere in general?

 

[MORRISONSTEEL]

The 318 "could" have had the 3 lever configuration, very much desired for folks that are willing to restore them. And for me I guess it would not matter if it was a 316, 318, 400 or 420, It's like my 1969 pickups, as soon as I sit in the seat I am swept back to another time in my life and the grin can't be slapped off of my face (unless of course if I am stranded somewhere, grrrr). Good luck