Deere announces layoffs

Steelfan · Jun 20, 2002

Hi wroughtn_harv, Thanks for asking about the greenhouse. Its not quite a reality yet. Looking to find Cheap Tempered Glass.
Now to the other thing, that brought us here. The jobs are not going to a better source of doing the job. Nothing against the Mexicans, but American Workers are the best. Yes they demand a bit more in salary, but I will buy American for quality, and I don't mind paying more for it. The point with these companies is that they move these operations to save money on the bottom line. They don't much care about quality. They still charge the consumer the same amount for the product, but have it made cheaper. That's why I say greed is the motive. Let's not forget the poor guy who lost his job, and isn't buying a John Deere, or anything else this year. He's lucky to feed his family, and keep his house. That's the way I look at it. My opinion is not for everyone, but I'll stick by it. Thanks for the posts guys. Its great to debate this with a bit of differing ideas./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Kent

banjobj · Jun 21, 2002

I hope you succeed in your effort. It is very difficult to compete against Mexico and their low standard of living. Would we Americans really like to call a cardboard box home/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif It really galls me how these companies take advantage of workers and move all over the world to find the cheapest labor /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

bgott · Jun 21, 2002

Here in Houston we have at least one company that specializes in showers or shower doors. Check around where you're at and see if there is a company that will sell you for cheap or give you their take offs. You might come across a nifty set like Harv has on his greenhouse.

wroughtn_harv · Jun 21, 2002

It pays to have two kinds of friends. One of course is remodelers. Invariably they will fill every nook and cranny of their place with good stuff. Then they'll come knocking on your door. Be nice, count your blessings.

The other of course is a good demolition man. Some business will lease some space and that neat cafeteria with the beautiful cabinets is to become a library. Neat cabinets work just fine in a shop or garage.

I've got a stack of one by ten by ten to twelve foot boards. They just happen to be red oak. The old demo contractor was tossing said boards in the dumpster as his guys pulled them off of aluminum power towers. I told him that was pure gold to wannabe wood workers and so he had the guys put it all on a trailer and take it to his place. Two rains later he called and let me know it had gotten wet and if I wanted it I could have it.

Hmmmmmmmmmm good. I've used a lot of it and it doesn't look like I've even touched the pile. It's setting in a bud's garage getting mellower each and every day.

The same contractor called me one day and wanted to know if I could use some surplus countertop granite. In my mind I thought chunks about the size of bathroom tile and it would be good for the lot on rainy days. So I told him I would take a load. I took four more after that one. I had some pieces that were four by seven, yup, feet. Stuff is absolutely beautiful. It's been more fun than a man should be able to have with his clothes on.

Rotr explained to me about how they make gravestones and such with the granite. It's all done with a sandblaster. He created a monster. I have a whole nother world to play in.

Anonymous Poster · Jun 21, 2002

I keep seeing more and more complaints about how Deere quality has gone down hill. Personally i'd have a hard time buying one in the sizes i use. Deere is looseing a lot of money in the ag. market, so fasten your seat belt, cause Deere lovers are in for a rough ride!! AND, here's one of the reasons why!!

http://talk.agriculture.com/default...plies__AgroupMain_html___1___1535505___12___1

They sure have done a lot of fixes (updates) on there 5000 series, and i guess they STILL don't have them right!
Robert

TerryinMD · Jun 23, 2002

Harv,

You mention WorldCom and your future son-in-law. Ahh... this is close to my heart. /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif

The current problems with WorldCom are somewhat derived - let me explain.

Fact - The telecommunications industry has been hit hard with over capacity and competition. There is too much bandwidth available to sell and the companies are trying to steal everyones customer base to cover the costs. This includes long distance and internet services. Have you noticed that some of these prices are beginning to increase. /w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif

Fact - Bernie Ebbers was and is a consumate deal maker. Some of the more recent acquisitions have caused the deep debt for the company. INHO, he strayed from the real mission of the company - Global telecommunications. The more recent acquisitions have not produced the revenue to pay the debt down. Bad timing for the most part - oops!!!! /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif/w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif

Fact - The timing of the Bernie bailout (nearly .5 billion in loan guarantees) was perfect - right after the Enron debacle. /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

There are plenty more but these are some of the more salient issues. Now, with this little bit of information the media feeding frenzy has worsened the situation. Take a look at most telecommunications companies today and you will see a similar problem. The are all in a downward spiral - revenue wise!!

I have to laugh at the media when they continue to refer to WorldCom as mainly a long-distance provider (my impression from the reports). So much further from the truth - a very large portion of the company is Internet related. If WorldCom were to "go under" and turn off their portion of the Internet - the WORLD would be in deep doo-doo for Internet bandwidth. This would affect not only civilian but Government operations. Very serious stuff....

Now, the real chances of WorldCom going under are slim. Will they downsize - oh yes!! In fact, I'm finishing my vacation today and will be returning to work tomorrow. I may not have a job at the end of the week. Very possible!! /w3tcompact/icons/sad.gif As you have eluded, there are going to be layoffs and they will be somewhat extensive. Oh well - this has happened before and will happen again. It's a terrible cycle.

Take a look back in time. The computer industry was booming back in the late 70's and 80's. The profit margins were great. 10-15% growth and profits a year. Then in the mid-80's the industry began to falter. Those pesky little PC's and minicomputers ate up all of the mainframe computer business. Plant closings. Layoffs. Companies ruined. Executives with golden parachutes.

Go back a little further. The steel industry. The railroads.... it goes on and on.

Business is business. Mistakes are made. Technologies mature. We are seeing this happen again and again. It's just that it is happening much more quickly.

As far as jobs and the manufacturing base leaving the country, enough has been said. I just hope we do not get into a global conflict. How long will it take to build up our industrial complex.........

Terry

wroughtn_harv · Jun 23, 2002

I was in the communications business for many years. Everything from being a lineman to a supritendent over a group of contract splicers.

The fuel for this crisis is the same as the one for the great depression as I see it. In both instances folks forgot about making money by doing business and instead started attempting to make money by wheeling and dealing.

It all became about speculation and when the ceiling was hit it all fell through the basement.

We had the same thing happen with the savings and loan fiasco. Folks weren't satisfied with making money doing business and decided they wanted to make real money wheeling and dealing.

I just have to wonder what's gonna happen in the long term.

We know the same work will be done chances are by the same folks with the same equipment.

A friend of mine, president of a large communications contracting firm, was telling me about some competitors going belly up. I told him they'd go belly up on Friday and another company would open up on Monday with the same employees and equipment fulfilling the same contract. The only difference will be the billion dollar debt load. Directly or indirectly us taxpayers will pick that up.

What is interesting to me is the start ups threatened the status quo telecommunication providers by offering new and exciting services. This forced the status quo providers to step up and offer the same if not better services to keep their customer base.

We saw great progress.

Then the start ups folded or were absorbed.

Now the status quo providers are kicking back and digging their heels in on upgrading. They don't have to. Where are their customers going to go?

Of course this kills all the suppliers to the telcom business. They are the ones that are going to be taking the biggest hits.

Which I guess could be a blessing in the long run. Since there is gonna be such a squeeze on financing research and development in the business the little guy in the garage has just as good a chance of finding the next breakthrough in telecommunications as the research department with no funding.

The saddest thing is all the folks who put in their twenty, thirty, forty years at some blue chip company only to see the value of their retirement go down the toilet. Just because gambling became the latest and greatest business plan. And the compensation for those making those decisions was based less on what they were doing and more on what everyone thought they were doing.

TerryinMD · Jun 23, 2002

Harv,

Very eloquent for a blacksmith!! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

As you have stated and also by others, the problem with the larger corporations is that they are being run by a bunch of greedy executives with the moral fiber of Teflon.

The IT industry (telecommunications, ISP's, network devices, software, and computer manufacturers) will come out of this current debacle much stronger. I believe that a lot of pressure will be placed upon corporations to clean up their accounting acts and make the executives more responsible for their actions. This will come from both the government and the shareholders. Too many people have been financially damaged by the smoke and mirror actions witnessed in todays economy. Everyone is affected and some heads will roll - very soon.

In the meantime, let us hope that the current world situation does not overshadow these events. We as a nation have a short memory (not individually, but by those in the media) and we need to keep some focus on these issues so that they will be corrected. The same pressure should also be applied to our government leaders to keep them aware of the systemic problems within our various industries. Not wishing for more government, just the application of the existing regulations.

Terry

wroughtn_harv · Jun 23, 2002

<font color=blue>Very eloquent for a blacksmith!!</font color=blue>

/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

If you'd been at the shop this morning you'd have gotten first hand evidence that I'm not much of a blacksmith and I'm not even near the town of eloquent. The same bad words over and over and over and over and over repeatedly and often.

I don't share your concern for the future. I suspect that the number one reason our species has been such a success is not because of our adaptibility or any of that Darwinian or biblical stuff.

I think it's because of our inate aversion to bs. It's hard to bs a child. Bs is something we develop a taste for and then become addicted to. It's sorta like tobacco or alcohol I guess.

But the kids are getting smarter every day. They're passing through the stages of life sooner. Each generation is reaching that stage of awareness about selfishness earlier.

So I see the perils tripping us, soundbytitis and ad bite tising as being something the coming generations will be immune to. That will be a good thing.

It will be interesting to see how they look back upon us. I imagine there will be some serious head shaking. I just hope they understand we are a product of our times.