Delo 400

[slowrev]

No I have posted several times over tha past year looking for scientific type of study data that shows using synthetic lubricants makes you engine last longer. This is a vital part in making a decision to go the extra money for synthetics.
Granted, synthetics work better at lower temps, but does the engine last longer ?
At this point synthetics seem to have a faced based following with no real scientific evidence backing the following. At least that is the way it appears to me.

 

[Soundguy]

I must say.. I consider that 6000 hour failure a fluke. Like I say.. we have dozens of big and big&old turbo diesels out on jobs.. some work 7 days a week... big cat / jd / cummins / perkins.. etc...

No synthetic oil.. ever... and we simply don't have catastrophic failures falling all over us.. Like I said in a previous post.. I've sen 2.5 rebuilds in 13 years...

While I don't dispute that synthetic oil is generally 'better'.. I.e. better temp extremes, and flow properties.. I question that whether it makes a huge difference in wear, compaired to a properly working and lubed dino oil system.

In other words.. if we actually had a big hour gauge.. and you could say.. have engine one on dino, and engine 2 on synth.. and then fast forward a few years / 10 thousand hours.. then plastigauge everything.. .. and then fast forward another few years / thousand hours till you eventually had the dino unit (presumably) fail first. At that point.. add up the (significant) price difference in the dino vs synthetic oil changes, and see hwere you are. My bet is the engine rebuild won't be as much as the premium you paid extra for the oil. Looking at 1.69 for napa fleet diesel oil by the quart.. or even cheaper by the 55 drum, or even bulk, as we buy it.., vs $$$ quart / pail / barrell of the synthetic stuff.

This assumes same interval of oil changes.. not extended drains... Drain intervals are there to get rid of contaminants..

I would also 'disqualify' failures on either engine that were not lube related... I.e. a bolt on part that failed.. or a gasket leak that caused failure or a cooling system failure.. etc..

Soundguy

 

[SkyPup]

Have we seen any scientific type data studies showing dino oils benefits over the last 100 years or so in diesels or lawnmowers?

Based on the fact that prior to World War II (50 years worth of data), most lubrication was with single grade mineral oil without oil filters. Subsequent to WWII, multigrade mineral oil and pressurized bypass oil filteration came into vogue (another 50 years of data). However the engines all still kept working fine, although some of them began to become turbocharged for the first time. Seems that using straight cut single grade dino without any oil filtration and never changing the oil should give how many thousands of hours of excellent operation in modern turbodiesels based on the available knowledge base?

 

[slowrev]

Thanks Soundguy, You said it all far better than I.
Ben
I am just not convinced that the synthetic is worth the money except perhaps in very cold weather applications.

Ben

 

[SkyPup]

It was an easy diagnosis for the professional Cat engineers, turbo coking from excessive dino oil degradation at elevated temperatures cooked the bearings.

BTW, it's way cheaper to use synthetics as he found out . /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[IH3444]

I posted this once before, can't remember what thread. Porsche factory racing team had a 944 racer which was running a compression ratio at 14.5 to 1. This is at the most upper end of the thermodynamics curve for gasoline. They had to change out the rod bearing after every race. They tried higher pressure pump, etc. Nothing worked. Then they tried Mobil 1 synthetic oil. Problem cured. They were so impressed that they then built a 930S dual turbo whaletailed racer 911 engine. They broke it in on regular high quality oil, then switched to Mobil 1, and turn the boost way up. Raced it for a season, then did a post inspection engine tear down. All the internal engine components were withih new engine specs, not wear tolerance specs, new engine. This is why I use synthetics. I want my equipment to hold it's new parts specs as long as it can. Plus synthetics give a bit of a cushion against unexpected high shock loading, and if the engine is experiencing an over heating problem, group 4 synthetics laugh at 300 degree F oil temps. If regular oil does you well, why change? If you can, and want to afford synthetics, why not? IH3444

 

[SkyPup]

Do you have any long term data for using a straight SAE 30 weight non-detergent mineral oil in your modern turbodiesel engines, the kind of oil like they used to use back in the early 1900- 1920's?

All those cars in the old gangster movies still seem to have kept running forever no matter how much smoke was coming out of the exhaust.

 

[SkyPup]

Professional Race Teams don't use dino motor oils because their goal is winning, not losing.... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[IH3444]

Winning races wasn't the point.

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Do you have any long term data for using a straight SAE 30 weight non-detergent mineral oil in your modern turbodiesel engines, the kind of oil like they used to use back in the early 1900- 1920's )</font>

The very fact that we can look back to those engines run from the 1900's and up into the 70's / 80's? on dino oil ( viscosity aside).. shows that dino oils do 'work'.

I own a couple of those no oil filter / 40's or partial flow oil filter systems you speak of. They seem to be happy as long as there is just oil in there period.. reguardless of whether it is dino or otherwise... I'd say an engine with 50-60 years of hours on it.. with 'farmer' style maintenance.. starting life with ND oil.. and then perhaps skipping changes.. skipping filter changes.. using re-fitlered oil now and then.. etc.. if that engine is still going toaday ( lots of early N's running around on oem engines.. ).. I'm not sure what synthetic oil would have done for them....?? see my point? Seems like the dino oil was good enough to get them 50-60 years... what more can you ask for? I'd wager that if you took the average economy engine out of a car today, and ran it.. on any oil.. synth or dino.. in 60 years it won't be running.. and it won't have failed from an oil / lube issue... it will have failed because we as a race do not build things to last... everything is disposable anymore..

Soundguy