Diagnose"pulley" noise; R&R main pulley?

[Moe Rocks]

So relatively speaking how much damage would be done if I replaced the belt, mowed for about 1.5-2.0 hrs., then replaced the pulley(s) in a couple of weeks? Or, would it be a great waste of time to get to the point of replacing the belt and not replace the pulley(s) and whatever else is needed?
(Would rather be mowing than typing, even wrenching than typing - have the tools, but am not a "mechanic"). Thanks.

 

[Moe Rocks]

Another pertinent Q., Spanner: how much time would you est. to do the job of replacing the main drive pulley and one idler, for an amateur mech. who has never done that particular job? And, just to be clear, from what you said above, a pulley puller is not usually necessary, is that right?

 

[Spanner]

So relatively speaking how much damage would be done if I replaced the belt, mowed for about 1.5-2.0 hrs., then replaced the pulley(s) in a couple of weeks? Or, would it be a great waste of time to get to the point of replacing the belt and not replace the pulley(s) and whatever else is needed?
(Would rather be mowing than typing, even wrenching than typing - have the tools, but am not a "mechanic"). Thanks.

You have to drop (release/loosen/remove) the idler pulleys in order to replace the belt. In my world I think "The pulleys have done as much work as the belt has. The belt has failed. It's a combo job now..."

Replacing the pulleys takes no more time than refitting the 'old/'worn'/used/ 'about-to-fail-who-knows-when' pulleys.

Remember (AND THIS IS IMPORTANT TO ALL WHO BOTHER TO READ MY POSTS) the new idler pulleys carry a 3-month "Parts Warranty" from JD, irregardless of who fits them. Keep the old ones as 'spares' but rest assured you have not wasted your money and will not be wasting your time. Time is money.

Another pertinent Q., Spanner: how much time would you est. to do the job of replacing the main drive pulley and one idler, for an amateur mech. who has never done that particular job? And, just to be clear, from what you said above, a pulley puller is not usually necessary, is that right?

Puller not usually necessary - Correct, Moe.

As for collateral damage. Unnecessary vibration (worn belt or flat-spotted idlers) will impact on both the Crankshaft Bearing, PTO Clutch Bearings and the Gearbox Input Shaft Bearing.

As I said, "Your call".

To remove mower deck, dismantle drive belt, steering & idlers. Fit new belt and as many idlers as you need (ideally all three) and reassemble takes me one (1) Hour. But that is going hard-out to save customers time=money.

For the amateur/homeowner it could be a half-day job and that's not a bad thing. Every minute under your GX is a learning minute and not time wasted. I recommend a Parts diagram (See earlier posts), a clean working space, supportive partner with cold/hot drinks and no interruptions.

Even if it takes you all day. Who cares? It's your mower and your own time.

Look around under there. Have an oil can handy and drop a blob of oil where you think a wearing part might rub.

You will be amazed with the reduction in the noise level.

:wrench:

 

[Egon]

Have you tried to wiggle the pulleys? Is the belt tensioned?

Quick fix for a loose belt may be some belt dressing.

 

[Spanner]

Respectfully to Egon:

This is a spring-tensioned v-belt drive.

"Belt Dressing":

Belt Dressing is a panacea.

"Panacea"

noun
1. a remedy for all ills; cure-all.
2. a solution for all difficulties.


In my opinion there is no place for 'Belt Dressing' in todays V-Belt Power-Train world. :twocents:

Look for reasons why the v-belt isn't tensioning correctly. Tensioner plate pivot may be binding?

:wrench:

 

[Egon]

I did look it up.

V belts may wear pulleys. With the wear on pulleys\belts and belt stretch the tensioner may not have enough travel to function properly.

Belt dressing has seen use on many multiple V belt drives of considerable hp. in industrial settings.

 

[Moe Rocks]

"Replacing the pulleys takes no more time than refitting the 'old/'worn'/used/ 'about-to-fail-who-knows-when' pulleys."

Spanner, other than an apparent slight misunderstanding of my statement about replacing just the belt, all you said is understood, agreed with and well received on my part. My statement about replacing the belt only referred to putting on a new belt, not refitting old pulleys that may give out any moment. Maybe I don't fully understand all that is entailed in replacing the belt, such as if it is necessary to remove one or more pulleys to replace the belt? At any rate, I am not one that would go to the trouble of a few hours labor/time and not replace questionable parts such as worn pulleys with new ones. I've looked at all the pulley prices (have the parts diagrams already in Favorites) and they seem to me to be some of the more reasonably priced JD items, well worth replacing while having access to them.

I have the clean, A/C'd shop with cold drinks in the 'fridge, the tools - other than a puller which I could borrow from O'Reilly's if necessary. Spouse leans more toward taking it to the dealer so I can use my time on other things, but will likely accept me doing the work, after this partial solution: I have a guy coming this Wed. to mow for me. I've done the edging & weed/whacking, so is not to big a deal for him. After daughter's wedding I will tackle the repairs and let you know how it turns out.

Other than maybe having unforeseen difficulty with one thing or another, I do look forward to the maintenance and cleaning opportunity. This winter while cleaning and painting the underside of the deck I pressure washed and cleaned a lot of mud from around and on the trans, as best I could with the rear body on. I also installed a new high-back seat with arm rests. - I like having things as ship-shape as I reasonably can, so will like being able to clean and check things out with the rear body off.

Thanks to both Spanner and EGon for the useful tips. Egon may be right about belt dressing being useful in some cases, but with properly working parts and new belt, it seems that should not be necessary, though it does bring a Q. to my mind if a belt dressing might possibly be a useful preventive maintenance item? (There may have been some belt slippage involved due to a pulley that wasn't turning as freely as it should. A couple of times I did notice some burning smell, but only briefly, another reason I thought for a while that the noise might just be due to a twig or something caught in a pulley.)

One other Question, and I'll sign off for now: the tractor has about 760 hours. I think in the owners manual JD claims the entire mower should be good for about 2,000 hrs. with good maintenance - which has been done, as far as items on the JD maintenance schedule, plus repairs. I wonder how common it is for any of the pulleys to be failing at that many hours, or less? Thanks to all.

 

[Spanner]

Ok, Talking "Pulleys" -

The idler pulleys used here are a plastic outer with a steel ball roller bearing moulded inside. The plastic outer has either "Vee" or "Flat" surfaces for the belt to run in/on.

That the bearing is moulded into the plastic pulley means it is replaced as a complete item. The bearings, alone, are not replacement items and they are sealed 'for life' and are not greasable.

Thus, they have a finite life-span the length of which, is influenced by heat, water & dust (mainly).

When the pre-loaded lubricant in those bearings wears out or is contaminated, by dust or water ingress (washing), the bearing will over-heat and seize (fail). the pulley will stop rotating but the belt will continue to travel along its pathway and over the stalled pulley. You can imagine, then, that the friction eventually causes the plastic pulley outer to 'melt' away and the belt can wear its way down right to the steel bearing cage.

This melting is often the 'burning smell' described by owners when they reporta belt-drive failure issue.

"I sensed a burning smell and then the drive stopped... " or similar. "I smelt burning and now the drive is noisy/rattly..." etc.

Occasionally, after the bearing cools down it can rotate again the next time the mower is used - But it now has a 'flat-spot' so it causes a vibration and noise associated with the sprung tensioner plate adjusting to compensate for the uneven pulley. I have seen idlers with two and even three flat spots. (Not common but nevertheless not impossible).

Consider that the idler pulley is not much different in diameter than the engine drive pulley and so the idler is rotating at approx engine speed (3,000-3,600 RPM) That's 50-60 revs per second. The vibration caused is a blur, but noisy.

So what I'm saying is - You do have to release/loosen the three idlers in order to install a new drive belt on your GX. The idlers are loosened to enable you to place the belt correctly inside the guides (retainers) which keep the belt in-line with the idler it is passing around.

Since you already have loosened the old idler it is no more effort to install a new idler at that time you are fitting the new belt. You now know you have new lubricant and clean bearings running your nice new belt.

Effectively, installing new idlers is akin to greasing the bearings. < Read that with a moment of lateral thinking!

In my experience, idlers last from 100- 250 hours and are best replaced before they fail. (Noise is the best diagnostic tool here).

Regards,
:wrench:

 

[Spanner]

Ok, Talking "Washing" -

In his latest post Moe mentioned he 'pressure washed' mud & debris from around the transmission.

I'm just giving my view here - Water is the enemy of the Ride-on mower. (All brands)

More correctly perhaps, Ride-on's are not 'water friendly' machines.

So here's why:

Many places under the chassis of a ride-on are prone to catching/holding grass debris in the course of operation. These include the chassis rail sections, transmission housing, mower deck, steering assembly plate and even the upper surfaces of idler pulleys (dust mainly).

Water washing tends to flush grass debris downwards into crevices. Wet grass tends to become acidic and corrosive as it decays.

A more effective method of clearing debris from on/under your Ride-on is to use an air compressor with a long-nozzle air 'duster' gun.

Compressed air can 'fluff' out the grass and blow it out of crevices and chassis rails etc.

No moisture is left on components. That is a good thing.

Additionally, many mechanisms of the Ride-on mower are 'open-jointed' such as steering, belt clutch pivots, control linkages etc. Rear axle shafts are particularly prone to absorbing water into the wheel hub between the shaft and hub.

Over time this water has a negative effect on the condition of the various components.

Air on the other hand, can clear out all debris, more than water, and has no detrimental effect on components.

The underside of the mower deck is a different story. Washing is good and many manufacturers install a wash-port device for hose connection. Always grease your spindle bearings after washing under your mower deck.

An air compressor is a great investment in maintaining your Ride-on mower.

Just my :2cents:

Regards all,
:wrench:

 

[beenthere]

Agree 100% with the "no water" theory.. only air, AND after every mowing.

Don't put 'em away wet.