Diagnosing Tractor Bad Sound

mmranch · Jan 17, 2023

It's the middle of snow season and a number of days ago, I started detecting a bad bang sound while snow plowing. Bang may be the wrong word to describe the sound. It has been very hard to detect. What with tons of snow and chains on the vehicle the ride is already rough.

But as I'm plowing along with the engine roaring and rock-n-roll blasting in my headphones, I feel an intermittent bang which resonates through the tractor up into my body. More of a feel than a sound. I wonder if I really felt something bad or was it just the rough ride. I get out of the tractor and check the chains and find some links loose. I go back to the shop and tie them down again and keep plowing. The bang is intermittent and very hard to diagnose. I know it has nothing to do with the FEL or backhoe that is attached as it happens when the FEL is lifted while driving. Seems to make the bangs in 4WD and 2WD. This goes on for days.

Yesterday, I plowed the road and the banging seemed like it was getting slightly worse. The engine is running fine and this sound would seem to be coming from either the front axle or the transmission. I checked the front axle oil and found it to be VERY low. I filled it up and finished the driveway but the banging continued. Trans oil was fine.

Then I called the snow plowing contractor to take over the plowing and parked the tractor in the shop. I am currently in the middle of another MAJOR project so I may not be able to focus on the tractor problem for several months. I'm trying to pre-think how I diagnose this problem.

Ideally, I need to dismount the FEL and backhoe and remove the chains to be able to drive the tractor with as little other stuff involved as possible. Then I can more easily detect the bangs with a smoother ride, etc. Since the front axle was low on oil, I'm thinking (hoping) it would be that rather than the transmission. I was thinking I would jack up the tractor and spin the front wheels by hand to see if there is binding, etc. I will also drain the front axle oil to see if there is more metal in the oil than normal and there might be metal chunks if damage has been done.

Just wondering if others have ideas for diagnosing a problem like this?

(Just so you know, I'm on the top of a remote mountain and taking the tractor to a repair shop would not be possible for months and cost many $$$.)

Thanks for any ideas!

zzvyb6 · Jan 17, 2023

Either the front or rear axles are locked together and snap out of sync when the difference in rolling distance is too much for the gears to hold. Eventually something will break.
If it does it in 2wd, then the diff lock is the problem. Try to release it.

loggin · Jan 17, 2023

mmranch said:
It's the middle of snow season and a number of days ago, I started detecting a bad bang sound while snow plowing. Bang may be the wrong word to describe the sound. It has been very hard to detect. What with tons of snow and chains on the vehicle the ride is already rough.

But as I'm plowing along with the engine roaring and rock-n-roll blasting in my headphones, I feel an intermittent bang which resonates through the tractor up into my body. More of a feel than a sound. I wonder if I really felt something bad or was it just the rough ride. I get out of the tractor and check the chains and find some links loose. I go back to the shop and tie them down again and keep plowing. The bang is intermittent and very hard to diagnose. I know it has nothing to do with the FEL or backhoe that is attached as it happens when the FEL is lifted while driving. Seems to make the bangs in 4WD and 2WD. This goes on for days.

Yesterday, I plowed the road and the banging seemed like it was getting slightly worse. The engine is running fine and this sound would seem to be coming from either the front axle or the transmission. I checked the front axle oil and found it to be VERY low. I filled it up and finished the driveway but the banging continued. Trans oil was fine.

Then I called the snow plowing contractor to take over the plowing and parked the tractor in the shop. I am currently in the middle of another MAJOR project so I may not be able to focus on the tractor problem for several months. I'm trying to pre-think how I diagnose this problem.

Ideally, I need to dismount the FEL and backhoe and remove the chains to be able to drive the tractor with as little other stuff involved as possible. Then I can more easily detect the bangs with a smoother ride, etc. Since the front axle was low on oil, I'm thinking (hoping) it would be that rather than the transmission. I was thinking I would jack up the tractor and spin the front wheels by hand to see if there is binding, etc. I will also drain the front axle oil to see if there is more metal in the oil than normal and there might be metal chunks if damage has been done.

Just wondering if others have ideas for diagnosing a problem like this?

(Just so you know, I'm on the top of a remote mountain and taking the tractor to a repair shop would not be possible for months and cost many $$$.)

Thanks for any ideas!

I'm guessing you are talking about the TYM t603? Just wondering how much fluid did you have to add to the front end? Was it always low or do you notice a leak somewhere?

nyone · Jan 17, 2023

Are you sure it's not a link of the tire chains grabbing something like the fender?

Avenger · Jan 17, 2023

Could be your chains. My chains are VERY tight, but at higher speeds I hear (and feel) a loud bang. It happens more at higher speeds, the faster I go, the more it bangs and the louder it gets. The only problem I have is finding out what part of the chain is hitting, and hitting where? I've jacked it up and had my wife sitting in the seat, in road gear, while I attempted to watch it. Never hits when jacked up. No idea, but only happens at high speeds with chains. So, its the chains. Not a big deal.
Could be your problem.

If its not the chains hitting something, then likely your gears. Depending on how often it bangs. Is it constant? Have you tried taking it out of 4 wheel?

Is this tractor only for snow removal? Why wait months, seems like this should probably be a priority, at least to diagnose and attempt a repair. Even if that means ordering parts, get them coming. I'm not you, I don't know what other irons are in your fire, but it it was me, this would be diagnosed asap, parts ordered, and fixed immediately.

nyone · Jan 17, 2023

Avenger said:
If its not the chains hitting something, then likely your gears. Depending on how often it bangs. Is it constant? Have you tried taking it out of 4 wheel

Not totally true it could be the driveline to the front end. Most tractors disconnect the driveline at the trans so even though it's in 2wd the front driveshaft is still spinning.
How ever loud banging is never good and never good to "leave and see what happens".

mmranch · Jan 18, 2023

Thanks to all for the ideas!

Yes, the tractor is the TYM T603. It is used for MANY things including snow plowing, road building, forestry log skidding, roof clearing, etc.

I'm familiar with the chains hitting and have dealt with it many times over the years (I hope it's the chains!)... but I don't think that's it. My chains are tight and there's nothing moving about them except the tiny leftover bits (such as a few extra links) which are tied down with doubled wire. When these sometimes come loose they can make a banging sound. But I've checked many times and there are no loose bits at the moment and plenty of clearance for them to spin without hitting.

My concern is more focused on the internals of the front axle as I had to put in about 2 gallons to bring it up to full (think it holds about 4 gallons). I have not found a leak and may have not filled it properly when I changed the fluids a couple of months ago (dementia may be starting).

The banging sound is not uniform... it is very random and doesn't happen constantly (yet). Most of the time, the tractor operates in Mid range gears and sometimes in Low range gears (hardly ever in High range gears). The banging sound seems to be detectable in the Mid range gears such as M2 or M3. Not sure if I've felt it in L1, L2, L3, L4. The banging has been felt in 2WD as well as 4WD. The engagement/disengagement of 4WD happens in the transmission. But when in 2WD, I think the front drive shaft and front axle internals still spin as the front wheels roll along. Therefore... if there is damage inside the front axle, broken parts could be catching as things spin as it rolls.

Or there could be a problem in the transmission itself. I don't use Diff Lock and will have to read the manual to understand what it does. The Diff Lock pedal is below the seat area and I try not to touch it.

I will have to do some more diagnoses to understand and isolate the sound and see if the front axle is damaged or what.

I need to raise the front wheels and spin them to see what's going on there. Also need to drain the front axle to see how much metal is in the oil. Need to remove the front driveshaft cover to see how the shaft is looking (I've replaced that before).

Problem is... there is 3-4 feet of snow everywhere (including on roofs), etc. The tractor won't make it 10ft without chains on it so I can't take them off yet (takes about 4-6 hours to put them on properly). The hydraulics work fine so I can still use the FEL with manbasket to clear roofs & backhoe to dig snow. Contractor is handling the road for now but there is much more snow management to be done. And I've got other major projects going on too. So it may take me a while to figure this out.

Thanks again.

nyone · Jan 18, 2023

With this new Info I would let it sit and pull the drain plug on the front diff to get about a cup of oil to take a look at. If your fluid is shiny or has chunks on it you have found your issue and it sounds expensive.

5030 · Jan 18, 2023

Never heard of any FWA unit except big ag tractors that hold that much gear oil. Something isn't kosher.

Eagle1 · Jan 19, 2023

Per Tractordata.com

Front axle:

17.4 qts
16.5 L

mmranch · Jan 19, 2023

Thanks again for the ideas.

Yesterday, I pulled the tractor out of the shop and raised the front end off the ground with the snow plow. Turned off the engine and spun the front wheels by hand and listened/felt. Both wheels spun just fine with no binding or bad sounds at all. I could faintly hear the internals of the axle spinning as I spun the wheels. Resistance was consistent on both wheels with no problems heard/felt.

I was also thinking that if the front axle had a problem, such as a bad bearing out near the wheels, it would have to be a very bad bang to transmit through the axle to the frame and all the way back up into the cab for me to feel it. When the noise/feeling happens it feels like it's coming from underneath me like the transmission or chains hitting... but there are no chains hitting. It's kind of like when a U-joint goes bad on your car driveshaft... in most situations, the car drives normally, but in certain situations you hear/feel a clunk-de-clunk-clunk. Except there are no U-joints on the tractor.

After spinning the wheels, I got a pen and paper to take notes and proceeded to carefully start doing some plowing around the shop. I had my headphones on but no music playing so I could really hear the tractor. At first, I plowed in L4 going forward and reverse with no real snow load on the blade. Did this in 4WD and 2WD. For about 15-20 minutes there was no problem. Then the problem sound happened for a few moments then stopped. I changed to M1 and drove over to the house to plow there. No problem sounds as I drove over. Then plowed a bit in M1 and M2 and heard a couple of moments of the sound but then it would stop. Proceeded to plow big snow by the house in L1, L2, L3, L4 and didn't really hear the sound except for a couple brief moments. This took about an hour. I will have to carefully monitor the situation to try to find some pattern but it's very intermittent.

I need to get some more gear oil then I will change all the oil in the front axle. When I drain the front axle, there is always metal in the oil. But it's very fine and you can see it sparkle in the oil. I will be looking for more metal than normal and big chunks to see what may have happened inside.

It's definitely a puzzling problem.

Thanks again.

crashz · Jan 19, 2023

Can you get the tractor in the garage and jack up the rear? I would want to get it solidly on jack stands and spin the rear tires by hand. Be careful jacking it up as the front axle pivots, so it won't give any lateral support. In fact, I like to lift the front with the loader bucket and block from there as it stabilizes the tractor a bit better.

The inconsistency seems like it could be something other than driveline. Chains, or something else hitting the body seems more likely. Even a loose or jammed cab mount or something jammed in between the cab and frame??

I have tendency to think the worst when I have a nasty sound. I have usually killed and buried the engine or trans, when some minor issue is the real cause.

loggin · Jan 19, 2023

mmranch said:
Thanks again for the ideas.

Yesterday, I pulled the tractor out of the shop and raised the front end off the ground with the snow plow. Turned off the engine and spun the front wheels by hand and listened/felt. Both wheels spun just fine with no binding or bad sounds at all. I could faintly hear the internals of the axle spinning as I spun the wheels. Resistance was consistent on both wheels with no problems heard/felt.

I was also thinking that if the front axle had a problem, such as a bad bearing out near the wheels, it would have to be a very bad bang to transmit through the axle to the frame and all the way back up into the cab for me to feel it. When the noise/feeling happens it feels like it's coming from underneath me like the transmission or chains hitting... but there are no chains hitting. It's kind of like when a U-joint goes bad on your car driveshaft... in most situations, the car drives normally, but in certain situations you hear/feel a clunk-de-clunk-clunk. Except there are no U-joints on the tractor.

After spinning the wheels, I got a pen and paper to take notes and proceeded to carefully start doing some plowing around the shop. I had my headphones on but no music playing so I could really hear the tractor. At first, I plowed in L4 going forward and reverse with no real snow load on the blade. Did this in 4WD and 2WD. For about 15-20 minutes there was no problem. Then the problem sound happened for a few moments then stopped. I changed to M1 and drove over to the house to plow there. No problem sounds as I drove over. Then plowed a bit in M1 and M2 and heard a couple of moments of the sound but then it would stop. Proceeded to plow big snow by the house in L1, L2, L3, L4 and didn't really hear the sound except for a couple brief moments. This took about an hour. I will have to carefully monitor the situation to try to find some pattern but it's very intermittent.

I need to get some more gear oil then I will change all the oil in the front axle. When I drain the front axle, there is always metal in the oil. But it's very fine and you can see it sparkle in the oil. I will be looking for more metal than normal and big chunks to see what may have happened inside.

It's definitely a puzzling problem.

Thanks again.

Like crashz said. I also might try putting all fours in the air and spin the wheels. Make sure you have it properly secured!! Also was wondering if your front drive shaft is a splined shaft where the coupler is warn to the point of skipping teeth. I know this can happen on Kubotas and it does make quite a concerning noise.

Hope this helps!!

Williy · Jan 19, 2023

With the chains on the inside of the wheel
look for a loose end {have tractor wheel off
the ground] and then holding the loose end
turn the wheel and see where the loose end
is touching

willy

nyone · Jan 19, 2023

mmranch said:
. When I drain the front axle, there is always metal in the oil

I would say theres a clue. Did you check the hub oils?

Dont bother jacking it up and trying to turn the wheel by hand. It sounds like it dosnt happen alot and I bet you dont want to be pushing the wheels over for 30min.

Are you sure your tires front/back are the correct size?

mmranch · Jan 20, 2023

Thanks again for the ideas.

I will be jacking the tractor up and checking the wheel spin on the rears and the front drive shaft and chains. The shaft is splined and I've replaced before it because of worn splines. But since the bang sound happens also in 2WD (when it happens) I'm not sure if it's logical that the front drive shaft would be causing the sound... but it might.

Not sure what hub oils are. When I drain the front axle, there are two plugs out by the wheels at the bottom and one plug under the middle of the axle. I drain all three plugs. There is usually very fine metal particles in the oil to some degree. Always has been and you can see it floating in the oil in the pan... this has been normal for years. I will be looking for more than normal metal and larger particles. But I still need to go to town to get some more oil first.

Yesterday, I plowed for an hour and only heard the sound a couple of times for a brief moment. Here's a picture of some plowing yesterday.

Today, I've got to use the tractor to pull ice dams off the roof.

Thanks again.

nyone · Jan 20, 2023

Typicaly the front center section will have it's own oil level and each drive hub will have there own. Are you checking all 3 spots?

mmranch · Jan 21, 2023

Thanks for the info!

This front axle only has a single oil level and fill hole which is to the left of center on the axle top. When filling the axle, it takes time for the oil to make it's way to the bottom of both hubs, then you have to top it off again.

Thanks again.

frogpond · Jan 21, 2023

Perhaps universal joints on driveshaft to front axle? Had similar symptoms on my little Kubota, and that's what it turned out to be. Replacement was easy and cheap. But you have a different tractor. Have you searched to see if others with your model have dealt with the same symptoms?