Diagnosis on poorly-running tractor (TYM 353)?

[Jon E]

I am posting this is the general Parts/Repairs forum because this could be an anomaly common to any brand of machine.

A few weeks ago I looked at a 2014 TYM T353HST tractor with 155 hours for sale about an hour away from me. It came with some attachments and the price was right. However, when I test-drove it, the tractor did not want to behave. I drove it up a 20-25% slope (might even have been steeper) in low gear, 2000 rpm, with the loader and a Woods BB60 brush hog attached. The tractor tried stalling on me several times, and barely made it 3/4 of the way up the hill before I finally gave up and turned around. The RPM's kept dropping all the way down to 400-500 unless I let off the hydro pedal. Back on level ground, it was doing the exact same thing. I also could not get any power when trying to push the bucket into a pile of wood chips. I decided not to buy the tractor.

In the intervening time leading up to yesterday, I decided that, whatever the problems with the machine were, the tractor still idled perfectly and the deal was too good to pass up. The tractor has been abused, and it sort-of turned into a rescue mission. I figured that between me, some competent friends and family, and this forum, I could fix this critter. So I went back and made the deal, brought it home last night. While I was there, before I loaded it on my trailer, I tried the same thing I did the first time - up a steep hill with everything attached. Same problem - except that I noticed this time that when the RPM dropped to the lowest it could go just before stall, the "check battery" indicator came on. It also did not exhibit the same problems on level ground, actually ran just fine. However, when I loaded it on the trailer, the machine tried to stall again until it was actually level on the bed of the trailer. The owner claimed that the fuel filter was changed in the interim, and that it did not seem to solve the problem. Sometimes it would behave and other times it wouldn't. I also noticed that the machine had a small hydraulic leak at one of the fittings that connects the loader controls, and I could watch it actively drip. I suspect it's low on fluid. I haven't had a chance to check it yet.

So I have seen the following symptoms: tractor tries to stall and loses power when not level; battery light comes on when tractor is about to stall, hydraulic fluid is leaking. The tractor also dd not want to start when being offloaded from the trailer last night, even though the engine was still pretty warm. My brother, who accompanied me, noticed that the battery had a black indicator window - that possibly the battery was going bad, although a multimeter across the terminals indicated 13.1 volts.

Could the battery be the source of the problems, or should I be looking elsewhere? I can't imagine that a bad battery would cause those kind of symptoms to a tractor - especially when I just replaced my car's battery and the car never had weird symptoms even though the battery was totally shot.

The nearest dealer is an hour's drive away, and he is very familiar with this machine and the mistreatment it has suffered, but I doubt that whatever this malfunction is, is warrantied. He has also told me he is very reluctant to work on the machine. I suspect it's partly because he's seen how badly this thing was beaten up, and because he probably wanted to sell me a new machine. In any case - it's mine now and I need to fix it. I am going to do a full-blown service on it anyway, so I will learn a lot more about it as I go.

I have to say, in spite of the issues it has, the TYM is really a nice machine. I can't wait to get it working and hope my fears about it are unjustified.

 

[Agvg]

Its logical that the generator stops charging at stall rpm and the warnings light goes on.

 

[Agvg]

I would have started to look at diesel tank, suction pipes, fuel filters. How much fuel is it on the tank? If its low I would try to fill it up to see if the behaviour changes.

 

[woodlandfarms]

OK. So the first thing with a hydraustatic transmission is the harder you push on the pedal to go, the more likely you will stall the engine. So when going up a steep hill, if you mash the pedal you are going to stall the tractor. There is more torque with less pedal depression. It is inverse of a gas car with an automatic transmission and quite frankly a thought process I struggle with to this day.

I would check/ replace your fuel filters (all of them, there usually is more than one) and I would blow a bit of air back up the fuel line toward the tank to make sure you have no blockage at the tank but it sounds to me like operator error.

as for the battery, your best bet is to remove it and take it in to test.

As for the tractor being hard to start when warm, again, once you clear the filters and check the battery, you may just need to find that sweet spot with proper choking on a warmer engine.

Also, you said 2000 rpm Hydros love RPM so run your tractor at 2/3rd at least of the max RPM if not all the way up....

 

[Tx Jim]

you may just need to find that sweet spot with proper choking on a warmer engine.

I have never seen a choke assembly on a diesel engine.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Sorry TX, You are so right. I meant to say setting the throttle and pre heat..... stayed up way to late last night.

 

[Lilartsford]

I think that I would start by making sure your fuel is not at the gel point. It's been cooling off in many parts of the US. Having just purchased the tractor you probably have no idea what kind of fuel is in it.
Symptoms sound like it could be gelling up on you. Cool airflow over the fuel lines could make it hard to start with a warm engine after a trailer ride if you are at the gel point. Think I would drain the fuel tank and filter, refill with known good fuel and some antigel ( I use Power Service in the white bottle) and run it long enough to get the fuel into the fuel injection system and see if that fixes it.

 

[Ken]

If this machine has been parked out side the fuel needs to be looked at for water or condensation in tank.
Fuel filter should not pass water except if continue to run it might bypass and get into the injection pump.
Maybe drain and then purge the pump the pump and fuel lines at injectors.

Changed filters maybe getting air in line if not correctly installed.

I was asked to check a little Ford engine diesel that would not start. owner had changed filter and failed to remove old o ring just added another and blocked the fuel flow.
ken

 

[MinnesotaEric]

I am posting this is the general Parts/Repairs forum because this could be an anomaly common to any brand of machine.

A few weeks ago I looked at a 2014 TYM T353HST tractor with 155 hours for sale about an hour away from me. It came with some attachments and the price was right. However, when I test-drove it, the tractor did not want to behave. I drove it up a 20-25% slope (might even have been steeper) in low gear, 2000 rpm, with the loader and a Woods BB60 brush hog attached. The tractor tried stalling on me several times, and barely made it 3/4 of the way up the hill before I finally gave up and turned around. The RPM's kept dropping all the way down to 400-500 unless I let off the hydro pedal. Back on level ground, it was doing the exact same thing. I also could not get any power when trying to push the bucket into a pile of wood chips. I decided not to buy the tractor.

In the intervening time leading up to yesterday, I decided that, whatever the problems with the machine were, the tractor still idled perfectly and the deal was too good to pass up. The tractor has been abused, and it sort-of turned into a rescue mission. I figured that between me, some competent friends and family, and this forum, I could fix this critter. So I went back and made the deal, brought it home last night. While I was there, before I loaded it on my trailer, I tried the same thing I did the first time - up a steep hill with everything attached. Same problem - except that I noticed this time that when the RPM dropped to the lowest it could go just before stall, the "check battery" indicator came on. It also did not exhibit the same problems on level ground, actually ran just fine. However, when I loaded it on the trailer, the machine tried to stall again until it was actually level on the bed of the trailer. The owner claimed that the fuel filter was changed in the interim, and that it did not seem to solve the problem. Sometimes it would behave and other times it wouldn't. I also noticed that the machine had a small hydraulic leak at one of the fittings that connects the loader controls, and I could watch it actively drip. I suspect it's low on fluid. I haven't had a chance to check it yet.

So I have seen the following symptoms: tractor tries to stall and loses power when not level; battery light comes on when tractor is about to stall, hydraulic fluid is leaking. The tractor also dd not want to start when being offloaded from the trailer last night, even though the engine was still pretty warm. My brother, who accompanied me, noticed that the battery had a black indicator window - that possibly the battery was going bad, although a multimeter across the terminals indicated 13.1 volts.

Could the battery be the source of the problems, or should I be looking elsewhere? I can't imagine that a bad battery would cause those kind of symptoms to a tractor - especially when I just replaced my car's battery and the car never had weird symptoms even though the battery was totally shot.

The nearest dealer is an hour's drive away, and he is very familiar with this machine and the mistreatment it has suffered, but I doubt that whatever this malfunction is, is warrantied. He has also told me he is very reluctant to work on the machine. I suspect it's partly because he's seen how badly this thing was beaten up, and because he probably wanted to sell me a new machine. In any case - it's mine now and I need to fix it. I am going to do a full-blown service on it anyway, so I will learn a lot more about it as I go.

I have to say, in spite of the issues it has, the TYM is really a nice machine. I can't wait to get it working and hope my fears about it are unjustified.

Drain the fuel filter. You may have water in it, just enough to be getting sucked in when on a slope, yet not high enough to trigger the water in fuel float (if it has one). Also before you drain the fuel filter, look for a provision to prime the fuel system like a plunger or an air bleed. Anyway, could be air or water trapped in the fuel system too.

Do not blow compressed air through the fuel lines! Unless both ends are pulled off of their components. You could pull the bottom line off of the fuel tank to discover if you have water in the tank or to drain the tank if you suspect you just have bad, old fuel.

Speaking of, the tractor has enough diesel in it, right?

You'll find that it will be something stupid if everything runs square on level surfaces but screws up on a slope.

Get a service manual for it ASAP too.

Speaking of, does it have loaded tires? My 60 hp tractor cannot get up hills in high gear at max speed and I must crank the throttle wide open and back off the go pedal to make it just about any upward slop in high gear.

Get a service manual for it ASAP too.

Fuel wise, diesel 2 is good down to about 25 degrees F or so before you need to start cutting it with kerosine or diesel #1. If waxing fuel is a problem, you'd have trouble starting and running as the paraffin wax is clogging up the injector pump and injectors themselves, a bad thing. If you experience hard starting, crap running, dump all the fuel, R&R all fuel filters, water separators (or whatever it has), prime the fuel system with the air bleed open so you get the old stuff out, and try again.

 

[k0ua]

Ok I am going to ask a really dumb question that has not been addressed.. What gear range was the hydro in when you attempted the steep hill climb fully loaded? Was it in HIGH? If so, a lot of hydro tractors will not climb steep hills fully loaded in HIGH from a standing start.. What does it do in MED. or LO? Sure you might have fuel delivery problems, or contaminated fuel. or maybe you just tried to climb the hill in HI range.? As said previously, when a hydro tractor attempts to stall going up a hill.. always back off of the hydro pedal do not push it down further.. back off of it and and increase the throttle setting to make more power.. If it still wants to bog down, then shift to a lower gear range with the range selector.