slowrev
Elite Member
Yeah they make money on the finance. Over 80% of GM's profit this year came from GMAC. Not auto sales.
Price Check Dickering on price
- Thread starter Jordanbear
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Henro
Elite Member
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- Jul 4, 2003
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- 4,982
- Location
- Few miles north of Pgh, PA
- Tractor
- Kubota B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini EX
<font color="blue"> Yeah they make money on the finance. Over 80% of GM's profit this year came from GMAC. Not auto sales.
</font>
That could be true...but what part of that went to the dealer?
Dealers seemingly don't care if you pay cash or finance. It appears that they don't care where the money is coming from. They just want the sale.
I don't think they get a kick back from finance deals... but I guess I could be wrong...
</font>
That could be true...but what part of that went to the dealer?
Dealers seemingly don't care if you pay cash or finance. It appears that they don't care where the money is coming from. They just want the sale.
I don't think they get a kick back from finance deals... but I guess I could be wrong...
OP
Jordanbear
Member
Wow- this was a hot topic. Most have told me what I suspected - other quotes give us bargaining power, and often there's not a lot to get in the first place.
We went with this dealership over the other nearby for a few reasons - personal recommendations (including from this board) hours, and inventory. So far I'm quite happy with the knowledge of some of the staff and woefully unimpressed with some others. I know enough about what I need to get me in the ballpark, but had a hard time getting the right information when it came down to 2 tractors. One felt right, the other didn't, but the sales guy really couldn't tell me why one felt so different - on paper they seem really similar. The "non sales" staff were quick to say "of course you felt a difference, here's why". The 2 in question are the MF 1455 and the MF 451. The 451 is the one we're getting.
We realize we're a slightly tight spot b/c this tractor isn't one of 5 sitting there eating up overhead dollars. I thought perhaps since they got it in, and pretty much got it out the door to us that there might be wiggle room. And we need a tractor - the old one gave up the ghost this fall.
I just figured I'd ask you all since you've done it before - it's much appreciated.
And I do want to second what someone said earlier about it being difficult to compare the different brands evenly. We looked at Deere (out of our price range) and when we tried to look at NH they tried to sell us a Kubota. I just thought that was strange.
Settled on the Massey because people I know & trust use them and the tractor was perfect for what we needed it to do. All told, it's probably not worth our aggravation to save $600, but I thought I 'd ask if it seemed "normal".
The issues of price difference were the shuttle transmission and something wih the PTO. I think the shuttle is fine, although do you REALLY need 8 reverse gears?? Hi/Lo has always been sufficient.
We went with this dealership over the other nearby for a few reasons - personal recommendations (including from this board) hours, and inventory. So far I'm quite happy with the knowledge of some of the staff and woefully unimpressed with some others. I know enough about what I need to get me in the ballpark, but had a hard time getting the right information when it came down to 2 tractors. One felt right, the other didn't, but the sales guy really couldn't tell me why one felt so different - on paper they seem really similar. The "non sales" staff were quick to say "of course you felt a difference, here's why". The 2 in question are the MF 1455 and the MF 451. The 451 is the one we're getting.
We realize we're a slightly tight spot b/c this tractor isn't one of 5 sitting there eating up overhead dollars. I thought perhaps since they got it in, and pretty much got it out the door to us that there might be wiggle room. And we need a tractor - the old one gave up the ghost this fall.
I just figured I'd ask you all since you've done it before - it's much appreciated.
And I do want to second what someone said earlier about it being difficult to compare the different brands evenly. We looked at Deere (out of our price range) and when we tried to look at NH they tried to sell us a Kubota. I just thought that was strange.
Settled on the Massey because people I know & trust use them and the tractor was perfect for what we needed it to do. All told, it's probably not worth our aggravation to save $600, but I thought I 'd ask if it seemed "normal".
The issues of price difference were the shuttle transmission and something wih the PTO. I think the shuttle is fine, although do you REALLY need 8 reverse gears?? Hi/Lo has always been sufficient.
Rick Jay
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 763
- Tractor
- Kubota B2910, also Honda HT3813 with mower and front blade.
Hi Bob,
I have enough trouble keeping up with the laws in Taxachusetts, so I won't even try any other state. I know here in good ol' Mass., "use tax" applies to everyone, and I don't believe the law, as written, has an exclusion for internet sales.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ...there are some legitimate ways for consumers to AVOID, by legal means, some sales taxes. )</font>
Yeah...I wish there were more of them. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I realize that the states really can't bother to track small purchases with only a few $ in tax. But I'm beginning to wonder how easy it is for them to track big ticket items with 100's or 1000's of dollars of tax due.
It seems the older I get, the more I like what I remember about the ol' "Snuffy Smith" comic strip. I wish I could remember more. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Be grateful you don't live out here in Mass.
One the bright side, we're supposed to get lots of snow over the weekend...so I get some seat time. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Take care,
~Rick
I have enough trouble keeping up with the laws in Taxachusetts, so I won't even try any other state. I know here in good ol' Mass., "use tax" applies to everyone, and I don't believe the law, as written, has an exclusion for internet sales.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ...there are some legitimate ways for consumers to AVOID, by legal means, some sales taxes. )</font>
Yeah...I wish there were more of them. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I realize that the states really can't bother to track small purchases with only a few $ in tax. But I'm beginning to wonder how easy it is for them to track big ticket items with 100's or 1000's of dollars of tax due.
It seems the older I get, the more I like what I remember about the ol' "Snuffy Smith" comic strip. I wish I could remember more. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Be grateful you don't live out here in Mass.
One the bright side, we're supposed to get lots of snow over the weekend...so I get some seat time. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Take care,
~Rick
rdam
Gold Member
When I was shopping for my Kubota, I inquired via phone to several dealers in the state. Several gave me a "highball" price that was $3,000 or more what I paid. These phone conversations lasted less than a minute. I assume they quoted in the vicinity of MSRP. Two or three in-state dealers quoted prices "close" to the "lowball" internet dealers. They began to get most of my attention.
The fact is I wouldn't buy a filter from the "highball" dealers if they had the last one in the state. I've done the same thing for cars/trucks. Life's too short and time is money. If you give me a good, fair low price, I won't waste your time with "endless dickering". The dealer I purchased from took the time to ask what I needed the tractor for and even recommended a smaller (less expensive) tractor as being adequate. He wasn't trying to sell a lot model as he didn't have it and stated he would have to order it. In the end I was down to a NH TC 40 and the Kubota L3830. I liked both dealers (The NH dealer even more). But felt better about the Kubota and it was a couple hundred less than the NH. I've spent more time picking out a pair of shoes than it took for me to finalize the tractor deal.
I spent months shopping and comparing prices around the Southeast so I had a good idea what was fair. The New England dealers are gonna' lose more and more business as word gets out that Corriher, Deen Implement and others are THOUSANDS less including shipment.
The internet dealers are GREAT places to get good low prices for purchase or negotiating power.
The fact is I wouldn't buy a filter from the "highball" dealers if they had the last one in the state. I've done the same thing for cars/trucks. Life's too short and time is money. If you give me a good, fair low price, I won't waste your time with "endless dickering". The dealer I purchased from took the time to ask what I needed the tractor for and even recommended a smaller (less expensive) tractor as being adequate. He wasn't trying to sell a lot model as he didn't have it and stated he would have to order it. In the end I was down to a NH TC 40 and the Kubota L3830. I liked both dealers (The NH dealer even more). But felt better about the Kubota and it was a couple hundred less than the NH. I've spent more time picking out a pair of shoes than it took for me to finalize the tractor deal.
I spent months shopping and comparing prices around the Southeast so I had a good idea what was fair. The New England dealers are gonna' lose more and more business as word gets out that Corriher, Deen Implement and others are THOUSANDS less including shipment.
The internet dealers are GREAT places to get good low prices for purchase or negotiating power.
normde2001
Elite Member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
- Messages
- 4,163
" if you bring it into your state, you owe a tax to your home state."
Get real, Rick. I have never paid sales tax on any internet, out-of-state purchace, and don't intend to until forced to do so by the "sales tax police"....Wouldn't even know how to go about paying it.
Get real, Rick. I have never paid sales tax on any internet, out-of-state purchace, and don't intend to until forced to do so by the "sales tax police"....Wouldn't even know how to go about paying it.
Bird
Rest in Peace
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( they make money on the finance )</font>
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( what part of that went to the dealer )</font>
Bill, I don't have any personal knowledge about tractor dealers' financing, but one of my brothers used to be the F&I Manager (finance and insurance) for an RV dealership. And, yes, they made money on the financing. I won't try to go into all the details, but I know that they did not come out as well if a buyer paid off the loan in less than 6 months. I did not know that when I bought an RV from him while he was still just a salesman, let them finance it for 15 years, and paid it off in 4 months. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( what part of that went to the dealer )</font>
Bill, I don't have any personal knowledge about tractor dealers' financing, but one of my brothers used to be the F&I Manager (finance and insurance) for an RV dealership. And, yes, they made money on the financing. I won't try to go into all the details, but I know that they did not come out as well if a buyer paid off the loan in less than 6 months. I did not know that when I bought an RV from him while he was still just a salesman, let them finance it for 15 years, and paid it off in 4 months. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Henro
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2003
- Messages
- 4,982
- Location
- Few miles north of Pgh, PA
- Tractor
- Kubota B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini EX
Bird,
I know it used to work llike that, I am pretty sure even with cars...but now I wonder if it still does today.
A total lack of interest in how things are paid for is what I have experienced over recent years...
As a side thought, I wonder if doing such things today might even be illegal or something. Again, I don't have any idea, but sometime in the past I got the idea that giving a discount to cash payers and charging full price to credit card payers was a no-no of some type...
Never had anyone offer to sell me something a little cheaper if I use cash in place of my Discover card... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif ...which we only use to get the cash rebate...
Now that begs the question of why a rebate would be permitted and a discount for not permitted...
Guess I am /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I know it used to work llike that, I am pretty sure even with cars...but now I wonder if it still does today.
A total lack of interest in how things are paid for is what I have experienced over recent years...
As a side thought, I wonder if doing such things today might even be illegal or something. Again, I don't have any idea, but sometime in the past I got the idea that giving a discount to cash payers and charging full price to credit card payers was a no-no of some type...
Never had anyone offer to sell me something a little cheaper if I use cash in place of my Discover card... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif ...which we only use to get the cash rebate...
Now that begs the question of why a rebate would be permitted and a discount for not permitted...
Guess I am /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
AndyMA
Elite Member
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- Oct 11, 2000
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- Windham County, Conn
- Tractor
- Ford 2120 , Kubota MX5200 , Deere X748SE. 1956 Economy Tractor
I read with interest all these post about getting lowball prices on the internet and buying tractors from distant dealers. That may be fine for some, but I personally don't mind paying a few more dollars to know that I have a local dealer I can call on when ever there is a problem with any of my machines. Goaning to bat with the manufacturer, loaner machines, after hours service, beyond warranty service, I've received all of these from my dealer and they are worth thousands to me. My dealer also has my tractors and equipment complete with serial numbers and history in his computer system. If I need a part I just give him a call and UPS is on the way.
Andy
Andy
Bird
Rest in Peace
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( giving a discount to cash payers and charging full price to credit card payers was a no-no of some type... )</font>
Bill, I don't think there's anything illegal about dealers making a percentage on the insurance and financing that they provide, and as far as I know, they still do it, but I can't say for sure.
And I've heard the same thing a long time ago about the credit card vs. cash deal, but have my doubts about it. I think (again, can't say for sure) that it may simply have been something to do with the credit card company's agreement with the merchant.
As for personal knowledge, I can remember when quite a number of gas stations, especially Exxon, even had signs out front that credit card sales were 4 cents a gallon more than cash sales of gas. At the time, I was told that they could not charge more than the posted price for a credit card sale, but could give cash customers a discount, so the pump gave the credit card price and you could go inside to pay cash and get a 4 cent discount.
However, in 1992, I delivered a diesel powered motorhome for a dealer from Denton, TX, to Bristol, VA, and refueled at a truck stop in eastern Arkansas, went in and paid with my credit card and when I signed the receipt I noticed they had charged 5 cents a gallon more than the pump price indicated. If I had known that in advance, I would have paid cash, but I failed to see the tiny sign on the pump that credit card sales would add 5 cents a gallon. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
So I don't know what the rules are. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Bill, I don't think there's anything illegal about dealers making a percentage on the insurance and financing that they provide, and as far as I know, they still do it, but I can't say for sure.
And I've heard the same thing a long time ago about the credit card vs. cash deal, but have my doubts about it. I think (again, can't say for sure) that it may simply have been something to do with the credit card company's agreement with the merchant.
As for personal knowledge, I can remember when quite a number of gas stations, especially Exxon, even had signs out front that credit card sales were 4 cents a gallon more than cash sales of gas. At the time, I was told that they could not charge more than the posted price for a credit card sale, but could give cash customers a discount, so the pump gave the credit card price and you could go inside to pay cash and get a 4 cent discount.
However, in 1992, I delivered a diesel powered motorhome for a dealer from Denton, TX, to Bristol, VA, and refueled at a truck stop in eastern Arkansas, went in and paid with my credit card and when I signed the receipt I noticed they had charged 5 cents a gallon more than the pump price indicated. If I had known that in advance, I would have paid cash, but I failed to see the tiny sign on the pump that credit card sales would add 5 cents a gallon. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
So I don't know what the rules are. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
