daugen
Epic Contributor
plastic deer netting... might get exciting.
Did you know Roundup Ready sweet corn is now available?
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dave1949
Super Star Member
I don't know why you are still here either if it upsets you so much.
You self-appointed the USA as being responsible for feeding the world. Why? Isn't that just like enabling endless welfare? If we are responsible for feeding the world, what happens when there are 2.5 billion more people than there are today? Do we owe the world a declining environmental and human health quality here, so they may reproduce irresponsibly, fight their civil wars, and practice their corruption? I think not. We need to back away from that concept, humanely, but away.
Note that I did not say 1940's farming technology will feed the world. I said we threw the baby out with the bathwater, there are methods we have foregone that we shouldn't have. In combination, livestock, pasture and grain has a natural strength, it all works together and has for thousands of years. Forage produces meat and dairy, manure is fertilizer, grains and forage for swine and poultry.
Now we finish cattle on grains that make them sick. So, we pump them full of antibiotics to compensate. 80% of our antibiotics in the US are consumed in farming operations. That alone should tell you we are on the wrong path. We convert oil to fertilizer rather than use the manures that would be present if farms were more multifaceted. At the same time, mega-dairies try to dispose of their manure in some ecologically safe way. Adding artificial fertilizers to soils does not build rich and healthy soils. The best garden you could ever have is the one that was next to the barn on an old farmstead. We are working against nature and not with it.
I believe we have to stop treating food production as if it were some corporate entity that has to produce quarterly results. Does an agricultural land investment trust really care about the land, or would you rather have it in the hands of families who know they have to cherish it and pass it on to future generations? Food and land are long-term endeavors if we don't want to starve or eat test tube glop.
Do you think the nutritional value or taste quality of our food has improved as farming has been corporatized? Many people believe it has deteriorated in that time, not to mention they actually fear the safety of the food. So, how do you measure the success of corporate farming? By Monsanto's profits or the quality of the food?
RickB
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You would like me to go away because I didn't join your rant?
I't's OK for you to be passionate about your views but I can't be? Are you for real?
I'm not defending anything or anyone, or making unsubstantiated claims.
It would be interesting to know what group of farmers are knowingly making their animals (who they depend on) sick, as you claim.
I just want to know who is going to get to decide who eats and who doesn't when there isn't enough to go around.
And why we need to rush to that point.
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super55
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I am thankful that conventional farming techniques of the 30-50's is a thing of the past. That farming practice back then where the moldboard plow and cultivator were the staple for weed control did more to remove the topsoil layer and cause erosion than any other practice. The dust bowl of the 30's can be directly related to the use of the moldboard plow. Topsoil is not infinite and what took millennium for mother nature to create man can wipe out in just a few generations of poor farming practices. The red clay soil in the south is a perfect example, In the cotton days they used the soil for all it's worth and then abandon, cut and slash a new area because the soil was exhausted and useless. Pretty much the farming tactics used in the rain forests today.
I applaud organic farmers for their fortitude. Even in a year with proper weed management and perfect growing conditions their crops can be a complete bust. Blights, Fruit rots, spores, molds, fungi and insects if not readily managed can wipe out a crop. I agree manure is a great fertilizer probably the best stuff mother nature can offer (next to those darn asian carp) but is not without risks. Chicken litter which is way better than cow manure is prone to having salmonella bacteria and cattle manure is prone to having E. Coli. If either of these are found in a vegetable/fruit from a farm the complete operation is shut down and the fruit is quarantined. This can be alleviated by 6mo-1 yr composting but most of the time farmers aren't putting manure piles in 6 month individual piles. While free range poultry/eggs have a way less lower % of salmonella organic farming using litter/manure have a much higher % especially of particular plants such as lettuce, strawberries and tomatoes.
Manure's biggest beneficial factor are by increasing organic matter back to the soil which no till farmers using herbicides are trying to preserve by not constantly rolling and tilling the soil.
So whats the solution? Ban all herbicides, fungicides, and GMO crops and go back to conventional farming practices. In the process continually degrade our topsoil levels to the land is useless. Get rid of Bt seed and have the corn earworm become a prominent pest that has shown extreme difficulty of control. Go with non GMO potatoes and see if we can recreate the potato famine in Ireland? None of these diseases/problematic insects have gone away. If you want to see grain futures more volatile than oil go back to conventional farming with no assistance from technology. One hard drought or pest infestation and you'll see corn go from 6 dollars to 15 dollars a bushel overnight and you will see everything from gas, to plastic silverware, to beef/poultry follow suite and go up in price.
I applaud organic farmers for their fortitude. Even in a year with proper weed management and perfect growing conditions their crops can be a complete bust. Blights, Fruit rots, spores, molds, fungi and insects if not readily managed can wipe out a crop. I agree manure is a great fertilizer probably the best stuff mother nature can offer (next to those darn asian carp) but is not without risks. Chicken litter which is way better than cow manure is prone to having salmonella bacteria and cattle manure is prone to having E. Coli. If either of these are found in a vegetable/fruit from a farm the complete operation is shut down and the fruit is quarantined. This can be alleviated by 6mo-1 yr composting but most of the time farmers aren't putting manure piles in 6 month individual piles. While free range poultry/eggs have a way less lower % of salmonella organic farming using litter/manure have a much higher % especially of particular plants such as lettuce, strawberries and tomatoes.
Manure's biggest beneficial factor are by increasing organic matter back to the soil which no till farmers using herbicides are trying to preserve by not constantly rolling and tilling the soil.
So whats the solution? Ban all herbicides, fungicides, and GMO crops and go back to conventional farming practices. In the process continually degrade our topsoil levels to the land is useless. Get rid of Bt seed and have the corn earworm become a prominent pest that has shown extreme difficulty of control. Go with non GMO potatoes and see if we can recreate the potato famine in Ireland? None of these diseases/problematic insects have gone away. If you want to see grain futures more volatile than oil go back to conventional farming with no assistance from technology. One hard drought or pest infestation and you'll see corn go from 6 dollars to 15 dollars a bushel overnight and you will see everything from gas, to plastic silverware, to beef/poultry follow suite and go up in price.
super55
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Your right dave, Every funder listed is a major herbicide producer I won't deny that but are you saying that these corporations are bribing universities and USDA to document only favorable results?
I support community farming and participate in it on a small degree with local friends/neighbors with vegies from our garden but what do we do to support the masses? I don't think a community farm is going to support Miami or NYC. In 1940 we only had 140m US population and now we have over 300m and our amount of ideal farmland has remained the same. The world population has gone from 2b to just over 7b now. Fortunately farmers have been able to increase yields of corn from about 35 bushels per acre from the 40's to over 150 BPA now mostly from GMO seeds, chemical fertilizers, and herbicide weed control.
CSA's and organic farming are filling a niche' and offering an option to the consumer and that's a great thing. My wife is completely on the organic bandwagon and our grocery bills reflect it. I would say that it increases our expense for groceries by at least 30%. Organic milk is just about double of what normal milk is. If it only marginally cost more to go organic than wouldn't consumer prices reflect that or are organic farmers price gouging for a specialty product? I would think it was to cover their costs.
dave1949
Super Star Member
These are your words, not mine:
I can't believe I am still following this thread, much less participating in it.
First you say you don't know why you are here, then you say I want you to go away, when I replied that I don't why you are here if it upsets you. Make up your mind for yourself. Stay or go, but quit making stuff up and try answering the questions I posed rather than attacking me.
You know less than I do about animal feeding, and that's not much. I know cows multiple stomachs and digestive systems are not suited for heavy grain diets or meat by-products. I know chickens will kill each other when densely confined and that's why they are de-beaked. And I know that all of these types of conditions make animals stressed and prone to sickness due to the impact on their immune systems, so they are then medicated to offset that.
If "farmers" aren't making their animals sick, then what the heck are they doing with all those antibiotics? You think all of that is necessary for a naturally healthy herd or flock? There must be imaginary vets medicating the wild herds and flocks in nature while you aren't looking.
These people have an obvious slant, but as I recall you have a dairy background, tell me which part of this is not true: The Destructive Dairy Industry I certainly wouldn't say it's true for all dairy farms, but I believe it is true for the mega-dairies that family farms are competing against.
Nobody is rushing to decide who eats and who does not. Given the huge capital investments in equipment and facilities, and the vested financial interests and political misdeeds involved in current ag practices, we couldn't rush anywhere if we wanted to. However, we supposedly have the foresight to know if we are going in a good direction, or not, and whether we need to look at food production in the full context that it deserves since it has a very large environmental footprint and its obvious impact on human health.
DFB
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So who knows about the illegal exporting of 23,000 tons of GM rice grown in the USA to Turkey a country that has strict laws on gmo's
The analysis results of the Istanbul Technical University Molecular Biology-Biotechnology and Genetic Research Center showed that rices contained BT63 and LL601 genes which are not commercially approved.
Turkey's GMO regulation, the Turkish Biosafety Law (Law No. 5977), came into force on Sept. 26 2010. GM crops are not allowed to be cultivated in Turkish soil. The Biosafety Council of Turkey has approved the import of 16 GM corn and 3 GM soy varieties for animal feed purposes only. No GM products are approved for human consumption.
According to the Agricultural Ministry, rice is cited among one of the nine risky imported goods and the USA is one of the nine risky import countries and that rice imported from the USA should be 100 percent analyzed by the Agricultural Ministry before entering the country.(According to USA Rice Federation, Turkey imported 147,757 metric tons of U.S. rice in 2012, valued at $63 million)
Reuters reports the U.S.-EU trade talks are expected to begin by June 2013. The proposed Transatlantic Trade and Investment Pact would be the biggest trade deal since the World Trade Organization was founded 20 years ago,
The main topics of the trade talks are expected to be subsidies and and GMOs. To quote this article from nbcnews "Washington has long been frustrated by EU restrictions on U.S. farm produce, such as foodstuffs made with genetically modified organisms, poultry treated with chlorine washes and meat from animals fed with the growth stimulant ractopamine."
It goes on to say that the Obama adminstration is trying to get Turkey to allow in GM products to gain leverage to open exports to other EU countries
Acording to the OFFICIAL US press release "There is no GM rice production in the USA, the rice is being contaminated during transport by other GM products such as soy and corn, and Turkey should have less rigid GM contamination regulations"
Accusations are the U.S. Official is not only trying to cover up a scandal that could have similar international repercussions as the Bayer LLRice incident of 2006; he is also trying to use Turkey for loosening EU GM regulatory approaches, the most crucial and problematic part of the upcoming US-EU talks. The U.S. is pushing for the 0.1% threshold for unnaproved GMOs in the EU.
Reportedly there have been 344 cases of illegal GM rice import cases reported in the EU between 2006 and 2013
Listed chronologically:
2013: 13 cases
2012: 41 cases
2011: 31 cases
2010: 49 cases
150 of these were from U.S. imports, LL601 and LL62 were the GM rice found in US imports.169 cases from Chinese imports the GM rice detected in Chinese imports was Bt63.
GM rice was detected in various products such as processed food, crackers, animal feed and pet food.
The article also links a 2011 Bloomberg report on the huge GMO cross contamination settlement with US rice farmers and BAYER 2 years ago
It is interesting there is very little info to be found in the news
And most of it is in the financial sector
Archer Daniels Midland (ADM) Rice and Bunge Ltd. are the two companies claimed to be involved. Both companies have past histories that include price fixing convictions, fines, and financial settlements
AG Profesional has already made news releases laying blame on as accidental cross contamination in shipping and political zealot activism.
This is the original article published 2 days ago
GM Rice Scandal in Turkey from U.S. Imports Reaches International Proportions. Part 1
The analysis results of the Istanbul Technical University Molecular Biology-Biotechnology and Genetic Research Center showed that rices contained BT63 and LL601 genes which are not commercially approved.
Turkey's GMO regulation, the Turkish Biosafety Law (Law No. 5977), came into force on Sept. 26 2010. GM crops are not allowed to be cultivated in Turkish soil. The Biosafety Council of Turkey has approved the import of 16 GM corn and 3 GM soy varieties for animal feed purposes only. No GM products are approved for human consumption.
According to the Agricultural Ministry, rice is cited among one of the nine risky imported goods and the USA is one of the nine risky import countries and that rice imported from the USA should be 100 percent analyzed by the Agricultural Ministry before entering the country.(According to USA Rice Federation, Turkey imported 147,757 metric tons of U.S. rice in 2012, valued at $63 million)
Reuters reports the U.S.-EU trade talks are expected to begin by June 2013. The proposed Transatlantic Trade and Investment Pact would be the biggest trade deal since the World Trade Organization was founded 20 years ago,
The main topics of the trade talks are expected to be subsidies and and GMOs. To quote this article from nbcnews "Washington has long been frustrated by EU restrictions on U.S. farm produce, such as foodstuffs made with genetically modified organisms, poultry treated with chlorine washes and meat from animals fed with the growth stimulant ractopamine."
It goes on to say that the Obama adminstration is trying to get Turkey to allow in GM products to gain leverage to open exports to other EU countries
Acording to the OFFICIAL US press release "There is no GM rice production in the USA, the rice is being contaminated during transport by other GM products such as soy and corn, and Turkey should have less rigid GM contamination regulations"
Accusations are the U.S. Official is not only trying to cover up a scandal that could have similar international repercussions as the Bayer LLRice incident of 2006; he is also trying to use Turkey for loosening EU GM regulatory approaches, the most crucial and problematic part of the upcoming US-EU talks. The U.S. is pushing for the 0.1% threshold for unnaproved GMOs in the EU.
Reportedly there have been 344 cases of illegal GM rice import cases reported in the EU between 2006 and 2013
Listed chronologically:
2013: 13 cases
2012: 41 cases
2011: 31 cases
2010: 49 cases
150 of these were from U.S. imports, LL601 and LL62 were the GM rice found in US imports.169 cases from Chinese imports the GM rice detected in Chinese imports was Bt63.
GM rice was detected in various products such as processed food, crackers, animal feed and pet food.
The article also links a 2011 Bloomberg report on the huge GMO cross contamination settlement with US rice farmers and BAYER 2 years ago
It is interesting there is very little info to be found in the news
And most of it is in the financial sector
Archer Daniels Midland (ADM) Rice and Bunge Ltd. are the two companies claimed to be involved. Both companies have past histories that include price fixing convictions, fines, and financial settlements
AG Profesional has already made news releases laying blame on as accidental cross contamination in shipping and political zealot activism.
This is the original article published 2 days ago
GM Rice Scandal in Turkey from U.S. Imports Reaches International Proportions. Part 1
Larry Caldwell
Elite Member
Europe has generally removed fluoride from drinking water because they fluroridate their table salt. There is no doubt that consuming excess fluoride causes mottled, discolored teeth. If you eat European table salt, you should not also consume it in your drinking water. Be careful what you bring back from Europe. You should spend some time reading Quackwatch. It would bail you out of a lot of the pseudoscientific trash floating around on the internet.
Is Fluoride Good to Have in Drinking Water?
Larry Caldwell
Elite Member
There are some fabulous compost fertilizer operations in the Yakima Valley, which is irrigated farmland interspersed with dry wasteland. They can use the wasteland to mix chicken manure with straw and roll the compost for months. The thing about replacing fertilizer with compost is that it takes millions of tons of the stuff. You have to take a quarter of your farm out of production, and go to animal confinement operations to collect the manure. You also have to keep compost runoff out of waterways, so it's only suitable in low rainfall areas.
Composting does not cause reduced yields, though. Orchardists value chicken/straw compost because it is very biologically active and actually reduces fruit tree diseases. Another popular practice is to plant a nitrogen fixing winter cover crop, like peas, and plow it under in the spring as "green manure." It's expensive in fuel and time, but saves on fertilizer. If you can green chop the peas, it even makes decent silage.
RickB
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I have a degree in Anmal husbandry/ dairy. and over half a lifetime feeding and providing care for dairy & beef cattle.
I may know less about animal nutrition than you think you know, I'll give you that.