Egon
Epic Contributor
Be of good cheer; regulations are in the mixing bowl to further limit particulate emissions.:thumbsup:
Diesel catergorized as carcinogen
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Rustyiron
Super Member
It's a vicious circle, every 30 years the govt destroys a type of motor. Back in the late 70's and 80's (in the US at least) the epa put so much crap (smog pumps etc.) on gas engines that robbed all the HP and mileage, that pushed me into the diesel pickups, well they've taken a simple efficient motor and turned it into a complicated cluster f**k, that will not be anywhere near as reliable and simple to maintain as what a diesel (used to) can be!
orezok
Elite Member
But, cancer cures breathing!
kootch88
Platinum Member
Asbestos used to be mined with bare hands in Canada where my family is from in Sherbrooke, right near Asbestos, Quebec. Of course that part of the family tree is pretty short for obvious reasons, but my grandfather said his father and uncles did this barehanded around the turn of the century. Guess the studies on that were flawed and had ulterior motives as well.
Why is it any study that is averse to anything we enjoy, tractors in this case, is flawed, corrupt or has designs other than informing people? This phenomenon seems to have grown tremendously in the past 30 years. Oh, I know why, all scientists, lawyers, politicians, taxi drivers, mechanics and teachers etc. are corrupt.
Why is it any study that is averse to anything we enjoy, tractors in this case, is flawed, corrupt or has designs other than informing people? This phenomenon seems to have grown tremendously in the past 30 years. Oh, I know why, all scientists, lawyers, politicians, taxi drivers, mechanics and teachers etc. are corrupt.
Not sure this gubmint solution here is really the answer.
(Taking off my tinfoil hat for a second...... what I'm on about is unintended consequences. Ex. - here (ON, Canada) the safety police recommended plastic mushroom caps on vertical rebar on construction sites - theory was that they were safer if someone fell on them. In real world use, they found that the problem they created was that in anything but a short fall, these "safety" caps ended up punching silver dollar sized holes through people, instead of pinkie sized holes. Intent was good (preventing injury), but the reality was that bigger problems were created.)
Ever been near a DEF loaded truck when it goes into Regen ? Smells pretty noxious, and I'm told it has been restricted or banned in parts of Europe, as their studies (been used longer over there) are indicating that this urea based "solution" (to the problem) is carcinogenic.
I sort of get the concept for heavy line haul trucks here - park at a truck stop while it regens, go inside and have a meal. Human near field exposure to the regen exhaust is limited, in this scenario.
BUT, if you are driving down a road, or worse, stuck in traffic and the light truck beside you goes into Regen - guess what, you are stuck breathing this urea based soup, regardless of how good you think your vehicle AC filter is.
Talk with heavy diesel mechanics - ask them what a major regen on a heavy truck looks like - does a pretty good job of smoking out a large industrial park - also ask them how much fuel gets burned for the regen.
DEF as a net health benefit ? Time will tell - and let's hope the final analysis allows for the increased fuel consumption of the newer diesel engines.
I wish I knew enough to do the calculation myself; I wouldn't be surprised if global air quality would be much better served by tariffing most Chinese factories out of existence, instead of us messing about with DEF.
D.
(Taking off my tinfoil hat for a second...... what I'm on about is unintended consequences. Ex. - here (ON, Canada) the safety police recommended plastic mushroom caps on vertical rebar on construction sites - theory was that they were safer if someone fell on them. In real world use, they found that the problem they created was that in anything but a short fall, these "safety" caps ended up punching silver dollar sized holes through people, instead of pinkie sized holes. Intent was good (preventing injury), but the reality was that bigger problems were created.)
Ever been near a DEF loaded truck when it goes into Regen ? Smells pretty noxious, and I'm told it has been restricted or banned in parts of Europe, as their studies (been used longer over there) are indicating that this urea based "solution" (to the problem) is carcinogenic.
I sort of get the concept for heavy line haul trucks here - park at a truck stop while it regens, go inside and have a meal. Human near field exposure to the regen exhaust is limited, in this scenario.
BUT, if you are driving down a road, or worse, stuck in traffic and the light truck beside you goes into Regen - guess what, you are stuck breathing this urea based soup, regardless of how good you think your vehicle AC filter is.
Talk with heavy diesel mechanics - ask them what a major regen on a heavy truck looks like - does a pretty good job of smoking out a large industrial park - also ask them how much fuel gets burned for the regen.
DEF as a net health benefit ? Time will tell - and let's hope the final analysis allows for the increased fuel consumption of the newer diesel engines.
I wish I knew enough to do the calculation myself; I wouldn't be surprised if global air quality would be much better served by tariffing most Chinese factories out of existence, instead of us messing about with DEF.
D.
NHmitch
Platinum Member
grsthegreat said:
That's not true, they later run for president
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MHarryE
Elite Member
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Nothing really new. My operator manual states in front the California required warning that diesel exhaust contains carcinogens. What alls news organizations talked about last week was the result of a comparison between operators working in an underground environment with diesel equipped machinery vs. comparable workers and environment without diesel exhaust. Not an unexpected result - the workers in the diesel environment had three times as many operators developing lung cancer. The engine makers were quick to point out that the study was done over many years and although older diesels with much dirtier exhaust did emit a lot of carcinogens, the new engines emit only a tiny fraction. This latest study was done in a closed environment but it's not just there that diesel exhaust has been a problem. I now live in iron mining country. It is kind of sad to sit in the waiting room at the hospital and hear the miners who had to retire early and are waiting for their chemo or radiation treatments talk about their buddies dead, in nursing homes, or living out their life watching television because their lungs are gone, and not all from smoking. The mines are doing a lot of work cleaning up their air now - exhaust smoke and dust - but it is too late for so many. Our tractors int the outdoors with no other equipment around pose almost no danger, but some third world job sites where they still use a lot of old equipment make my lungs burn. I've become too accustomed to our emissions controls in North America and Europe.
gerford
Bronze Member
Water is a known human carcinogen, if it has chlorine in it, since chlorine is a known human carcinogen and cities add chlorine to the water supply to make it safe for drinking. That's the rub, chlorine vastly reduces the diseases in humans while slightly increases the risk of cancer, so given the statistics its easy to put chlorine in the water. The old saying is " the dose makes the poison" and a little bit of chlorine is fine, it reduces all sorts of water borne illnesses and the chance of cancer goes up slightly, so on balance its a very good thing to do. Its easy to look up the list of carcinogens and again, "the dose makes the poison". Some of the common things on the list are:
X-rays. X rays give you cancer, but not in the dose you get in the doctors office
Wood dust. Be careful breathing it.
Alcohol.
Meat cooked over an open flame , like a BBQ grill.
Sunlight.
These are all known human carcinogens.
The dose makes the poison.....a Big Mac 2 times a year is fine, every day and you're in trouble.
Just because sunlight is a known human carcinogen, which it is, you don't need to be afraid of it in the right dose.
X-rays. X rays give you cancer, but not in the dose you get in the doctors office
Wood dust. Be careful breathing it.
Alcohol.
Meat cooked over an open flame , like a BBQ grill.
Sunlight.
These are all known human carcinogens.
The dose makes the poison.....a Big Mac 2 times a year is fine, every day and you're in trouble.
Just because sunlight is a known human carcinogen, which it is, you don't need to be afraid of it in the right dose.
NHmitch
Platinum Member
Thats very good information. I forgot about how California has warned about this for years..
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