Oil & Fuel Diesel doesn't start in cold weather - not gelling

[Mustache]

Hi everyone,
I have been reading now for days about my problem.
I have a 2006 Massey Ferguson 1560. I am the third owner and the previous owner told me he only ran the block heater for about an hour and the tractor would start fine.

Now, this is true if the temperature is above -7 degrees C. Anything below and I cannot get it to start.

What happens is that at i.e. -15C I cycle the glow plugs for about 15 seconds and then try to start. The engine turns VERY slow, at most 2 or 3 revolutions and then the battery does not seem to have enough power to turn the starter/engine over. Thing is, the warmer it is, the better the engine turns over.

Her is what I have done so far:
New diesel fuel filter and anti gelling additive, fuel seems to run fine.
New battery, old one only kept about 50% of charge.
Magnetic heater on oil pan, but that doesn't seem to help.

What I will do next is change the oil and filter to SAE10W - 10W-30 as per spec for below -10C temperatures. (Not sure about the exact type of oil in it right now).

Dealer thinks it could be a bad starter that just doesn't deliver enough voltage to turn the engine.

Any youtube video I have watched about gelled fuel and winter diesel starting shows the engine turning over just fine, but not kicking in. Mine barely turns over though.

Any ideas and suggestions are welcome!

Btw, I cannot take the starter out without the tractor moving as the loader blocks access to it.

Thank you all in advance,
Mustache

ETA: The block heater was on for 2 days and the block is nicely warm to the touch.

 

[3930dave]

Motor Oil - whatever you pick, make sure it is synthetic. Many guys here will run 5W40 diesel oil (Mobil, Rotella, etc.). You want the low temperature good flow characteristics of a quality synthetic. 10W30 synthetics exist, but they are not easy to find - that, and Summers here are hot enough to want the 40W for then.

Changeout the oil first, before you do anything else. An oil will start to lose grade as it ages - meaning it will thicken more in Winter, than when it is new. If you have a conventional 15W40 in there, and it's well aged, then you are basically trying to turn the engine over in a sump full of molasses.

If that doesn't do it, I'd go over all the connections between the battery and the starter. Take them apart (disconnect batt + first), clean all the connections, put them back together and cover with dielectric grease (at least after all diagnostics are done). Don't forget your engine block ground. You've changed the battery, but if you have a high resistance connection somewhere, you will lose power there.

As a double check, measure the voltage at the starter, when cranking. Back trace for large voltage drops if needed.

But, first things first... get a good quality synth oil into that sump.

On a stick tractor, put the clutch in when starting, even with Neutral selected. If HST, not sure if anything matters there (starting wise), but brings to mind - how many hours on the tractor ?

There are synthetic hydraulic fluids available - just thinking if you are running high hours conventional fluid in an HST, that may add starting load too. Hydraulic fluid is something a lot of owners neglect to change on sched.

Just saw your note on the BHeater/2days..... I'd change the motor oil first anyway. :2cents:

Rgds, D.

 

[moship]

If changing the oil, I'd consider using the synthetic oils with the 5W-40 rating (pick your brand preference). I noticed my tractors turned over quicker using them.

Yes the starter could need replacing, but I'd disconnect and clean both the positive and negative leads from the battery to the starter and frame (grounding points).

 

[bandaidmd]

The cold really zaps a batterys output thats why most trucks always have 2 ,that might be a option for you to concider (adding a second battery ). 15 seconds really seems like a short amount of time to heat the gp's in that cold of weather when the battery is already at a disadvantage. More battery or hook up a good charger with a crank booster and heat the plugs more would be my advice but free advice is sometimes only worth what you paid for it.

 

[Mustache]

More battery or hook up a good charger with a crank booster and heat the plugs more would be my advice but free advice is sometimes only worth what you paid for it.

Thank you for the free advice. I did use a crank boost and a second battery and neither made a difference. I think I am going to try the oil first. I hear synthetic oil does make a big difference as 3930dave said and the current oil has been in it since last spring, but only 130 hours. 150 hours is the recommended change interval.

I also have the tractor in neutral and press the clutch, so it does not have to turn or pump anything else but the motor.

So oil it is, I keep you posted about the results on this one.

 

[Mustache]

Motor Oil - whatever you pick, make sure it is synthetic. Many guys here will run 5W40 diesel oil (Mobil, Rotella, etc.). You want the low temperature good flow characteristics of a quality synthetic. 10W30 synthetics exist, but they are not easy to find - that, and Summers here are hot enough to want the 40W for then.

So, just went to my dealer and he apparently has never used synthetic oil in any of his tractors. Makes sense I guess due to the big price difference. I got some 10W-30, out of the barrel from what they use in the winter. We shall see how that goes.

Now, if I stay with conventional oil, I won't mind changing it twice a year to accommodate for the cold temperatures, still better than a stranded tractor. But I rather run synthetic. But what kind should I use? 15W-40 diesel synthetic says in the manual is only good for temperatures above -10C. That's at least how I read it. Now Ontario had already 2 weeks with below -20C.

so what synthetic grade should I get?

I also bought a battery heater blanket, hopefully that will make a difference too. If none of that helps, I may go to a stick on oil pan heater.

1. Trickle charger,
2. block heater,
3. battery heater,
4. oil pan heater,

If I need to run all of that, I need to get a nuclear plant for myself...

 

[3930dave]

To pick one (all big name brands, and many minor ones will serve you just as well), Rotella T6 in 5W40. It serves many people well for cold starting diesels.

If you are at CTC (or somewhere else that stocks both), there is also Rotella T5 (yes, five) in 0W40 (yes, zero dubya 40). Just mentioning the T5 in case it is on sale..... (Shell markets the T5 0W40 up here as a full synthetic, while they market the rest of their T5 viscosity grades as semi-synthetic), the 5W40 should work fine.

The other thing to be aware of is the SAE rating called for in your manual for your diesel oil. Will be something like CG or later (CJ, etc.). At this stage, what you need to know is the later ratings should back-spec to the older C_ specs. I always verify the C_spec match up myself.... but that's just part of me sleeping at night .

That last paragraph was mostly just for your edification.... short story is a modern Shell, Mobil, Delo, etc.... 5W40 Diesel oil that you can buy off a retail shelf should work fine.

That said, there was a post on here not long ago about somebody get old C_ spec oil from their franchised tractor dealer - that matters the most to people trying to maintain emission system warranties.

Rgds, D.

 

[grsthegreat]

lose the magnetic block heater...you get a huge loss it true heat transfer with those things. Either go with a freeze plug or lower radiator model, or a glue on model. I use twin Wolverine units on mine due to a split style oil pan. https://www.wolverineheater.com/faq.-a/252.htm

My tractor started up just fine last week at -25F temps. I use timer that runs 2 hours at a time (5AM and 5PM)

You can email the company and tell them the model of tractor and amount of gallons of fluids in oil tank and they will give you the recommended unit.

 

[Egon]

Look into the starter a bit.

 

[Clint S]

I know mine was doing something similar. Turn over slow maybe start/ maybe not. Next time I will try to crank and barely get a grunt from the starter or 1 crank then nothing. Next time turns over slow again, but starts. Happened all fall until it got cold and then more no starts than starts. Changed the starter and all seems better now. Faster cranking speed quicker starts. I think the solenoid was not letting enough voltage through or something.