Oil & Fuel Diesel doesn't start in cold weather - not gelling

[Mustache]

It's not a Crappy Tire battery is it? I would suspect the battery if it is. If the problem does eventually point to the starter, they can be rebuilt too!

It is not a crappy tire battery, it is from the dealer and it reads fine, although I don't have it load tested, maybe I should do that too.

I plan on taking the starter off (sadly it sits behind the front loader mounting arm, so it won't be easy) and to open it up and see, maybe it just needs a cleaning.

I had to replace the brushes in my Honda ATV starter. Started fine after that for about 6 months, then the tab to start issue came back, which made me replace the brushes in the first place. But this time the brushes were still fine. So all I did was clean the starter (blowing it out carefully with compressed air) and it worked fine again. Maybe it is similar on the tractor.

The joys of used equipment, I guess.

 

[grsthegreat]

id put on a block heater of some kind before i would ever remove and open the starter. Ill bet you thats your only issue.....its too bloody cold.

I can tell you the few times ive tried to start diesels in extreme cold without the benefits of plugging them in for a few hours, they were a right pain in the butt to get started.

 

[JoeL4330]

I can't recommend this to you, but if I needed to get it started, in order to get the loader repositioned (and blocked) in order to tackle the starter, I'd put a maintenance charger on the battery, tarp the engine and fire torpedo heater at it, drain the oil and replace with warmed-up 0W-something syn, ...you can get the engine thinkin' it's summertime ... and then, if needed, use ether (no glow plugs) ...but, before I did any of that, I would refresh all the electrical connections on the way to the starter.

If your loader control has a float position, you should be able to jack and crib the loader up to, perhaps, permit access.

 

[Coyote machine]

Do NOT use ether! Do change the oil and USE 5W-40 synthetic. Plenty don't use it and their tractors run fine, yours for whatever reasons could use the advantages of the synthetic cold start capabilities, and overall benefits synthetic offers to higher hour engines.
When you check your battery remove the negative cable 1st and reinstall last. Sometimes the actual cables break down so have someone with a gloved hand yank on the negative cable slightly while you or they crank over the engine. If you notice any better or worse cranking then replace the entire cable with a brand new cable and new crimped on ends. Available at most quality auto parts stores. You've already replaced the battery so it and possibly other parts of the electrical system can be questionable. Yes, your starter or solenoid could be marginal/bad too, but do the troubleshooting from battery forward to the starter. If the negative cable is internally corroded, which happens more often than not, it can be determined by cutting some of the sheathing off the cable and finding corrosion, or pinkish copper instead of copper colored wire. If one is bad, replace both.
Google how to test a starter circuit, or similar, to learn what you need to know to test the starter if/when it gets that far. With all the heater's you've been using, I can almost guarantee if you switch to 5W-40 T6 or similar diesel specific oil and verify your cables to ground at frame and battery post/starter your problem may be solved. If not, then look at the starter. It has 8 years and 1000 hours on it, so it could need to be rebuilt, possibly.
One step at a time is the way to troubleshoot electrical issues, not parts replacement until it fixes the problem.
Post back findings.

 

[bandaidmd]

There are some inductive amp meters that can read the starter draw thru the battery cable, sorry I don't know what the "normal" would be for your tractor.
I had a MF205 that only had 800 hours on it and replaceing the starter was night and day difference as to cranking speed.
I found a replacement on ebay way cheaper.
Someone sugjested warming it up with a tarp and heater, that will probably work to get it going so you can get it somewhere to actually repair it.

 

[Mustache]

Well, I did follow instructions on how to measure the draw on the starter and it seems to be fine. I verified the electrical connections, however I did not look into the cables and if they have any corrosion or not. I do agree with Coyote machine that I need to verify everything step by step instead of throwing $$$ at it via new parts.

Currently we have temperatures just around freezing and last night the tractor started without the block heater plugged in and cycling the glow plugs once for 10 seconds. So, the oil may have made a difference, but I won't know for sure.

I did notice however that during cranking it slowed down once in a cranking revolution, so I do believe looking into the wires in more detail may be key.

JoeL4330, good point, my tractor does have float on the loader, so worst case I could lift it up via a hoist in the shed it is sitting in. I also did the tarp and heater thing before and got it started, although it wasn't -20C at that time.

We are expecting 30 cm of snow here over the next 3 days, so I really hope the tractor won't let me down.

 

[Mustache]

So, update to my last post. 30cm of snow and the tractor did let me down. After that it was way cold again for several weeks and the **** thing would not start or crank.

This weekend however we had temperatures just around freezing and with the block heater plugged in, it started just fine. So I took the time to take the front loader off to have more space to work on the starter.

I had to remove all the wiring, because it covered up where the starter was sitting. I found out that the cable going to the starter was a bit chafed, but mostly the outside protection, not the cable insulation itself. Taking the starter off was okay and actually easy compared to putting it back on, later more to that. So it took the starter off and cleaned it up. I opened up the housing as well and carefully cleaned the inside too. Lots of dust from the brushes, but also environmental dust and grime came out. I reassembled everything and put the the starter back on the tractor.

Now, taking it off was easy, removing the bolts and it pretty much fell into my hands. Putting it back on, whole different story. It has no guides in any form that will hold it in place and there is no room to hold the starter in place and at the same time put the mounting bolts in and start screwing them in. After a lot of swearing I somehow managed to get one bolt in and to eventually get everything together. Putting the wiring back into place wasn't easy either, but I figured it out.

So, it came to starting the tractor. I had power, glow light came on, tractor was plugged in for 24 hours prior... turned the key... all I god was a clunk from the starter being stuck. Tried couple more time, just the same thing. Took a ratchet extension and carefully banged the starter with it. I got back in, turned the key and the tractor immediately started. Super fast cranking, No issues at all.

I did my snow clearing and stopped and started the tractor a couple times without any issues. Now, I assume the starter will in the least have to be rebuild, maybe even replaced. At least I for sure now know that it is the starter and not the wiring. I will see in a few days, when it is supposed to be cold again, how the starter runs then.

Thank you all for the help and input!!!

 

[Looking4new]

There are lots of gravel pits and trucking in your area. Talk to the shop foremen and see who they deal with in regards to getting starters rebuilt. I am pretty quite sure that they (the pits and truckers) don't go and buy rebuilt exchange starters whenever they need them. I did this and found a good rebuilder right around the corner from my work place.

 

[diesel lover]

There are lots of gravel pits and trucking in your area. Talk to the shop foremen and see who they deal with in regards to getting starters rebuilt. I am pretty quite sure that they (the pits and truckers) don't go and buy rebuilt exchange starters whenever they need them. I did this and found a good rebuilder right around the corner from my work place.

very true! There is a place down the road from me, and all they deal with are starters, alternators, and battery's for the most part. Your 700$ to 1000$ starter could be 200$ rebuilt there. They do a great job!! While going to diesel tech school I once flipped the contacts inside a komatsu excavator's starter to enable it to be useable again. It saved the guy over 1000$ and that was more than 5 years ago. I don't believe we charged the guy anything and he probably got a lot of starts off such a little fix. I have a Massey ferguson diesel. A mf 25. At one point in time I will rebuild/ replace/ or repair the starter. It works fine now but there is nothing wrong at all with preventive maintenance on a starter of a tractor that is 50 years old and you need it to plow snow!!! Easier while warm. Glad you got your tractor going