Diesel fuel additive

[Shimon]

I don't see why one would need to use an additive under normal circumstances.

Actually, if you have a rotary style injection pump which is lubricated by diesel (not oil) then you need to add something to raise the lubricity of the fuel since LSD and ULSD have reduced lubricity due to the process of removing sulfur. Most IPs these days are oil lubricated but a lot of older diesels have rotary pumps (6.9/7.3 Internationals, older Cummins 5.9, Perkins, etc.) I recommend (and use) Stanadyne which works very well.

 

[familyman]

What Shimon said.

After 66,000 miles experimenting on my Dodge Cummins, I've arrived at this formula: 3 gallons PowerService DieselKleen (white or silver, depending on season); 1 gallon Marvel Mystery oil; 1 tiny bottle of "1 gallon mix" 2-stroke oil (I've been using the same Echo and Husky oil that I use in the chainsaws), all mixed together. Add to diesel fuel at about .75 oz./gal. This mixture makes a noticeable improvement in how smoothly my Cummins runs and improves my mileage (about 2 mpg hwy.). I run it in the Kubota for the same reasons Shimon stated. Lubes fuel pump and injectors, deals with water, keeps fuel system clean, easy starts, runs better. Nothing wrong with using straight DieselKleen if you choose to.

 

[Vaulter98c]

so, you recomend running this blend in todays kubotas too?
If so, where do I get all the things that you mention? Ive not had a diesel anything yet, so I don't know where to shop for them and what not. I do know we have a trucking supply company in a nearby town, but Ive never been there.

Also, whats the shelf life on this stuff? Doing like you say, there is a little over 4 gallons of "solution". Im going to say, 535 oz for the whole shebang. That gives me enough to treat 713 gallons of fuel, or about 87 full refuels in a B26. Thats ALOT of runtime! Im proboly going to have to 1/4 your recipe, maybe even 1/8 it, but even at that, 11 refuels is going to last a while. It won't flatten or go bad, will it? Also, if I do end up going to the extremes on cutting your recipe back, will the non-mixed items hold up, or should I give them to a local trucker?

I don't run anything diesel, so I can't just put it in my tank like you can. I WISH I did, but America doesn't support the diesel engine in my vehicle that is in Thai's version. **** you GM... lol

 

[lp333]

I don't see why one would need to use an additive under normal circumstances. However, one might consider an additive in special situations such as:
- the need to stabilize fuel during extended periods of inactivity...
- the need to eliminate traces of water in the fuel...
- the need to prevent the fuel from congealing in extremely cold weather...
- a wish to clean the injectors periodically ...
-etc...

Actually, if you have a rotary style injection pump which is lubricated by diesel then you need to add something to raise the lubricity... I recommend (and use) Stanadyne which works very well.

I might be wrong, but the EMA (Engine Manufacturers Association) might be expected to know more about the properties and quality of diesel fuel than most. The EMA has existed since 1968 and includes the Kubota Engine America Corporation among its prestigious ranks.

Here is a pertinent excerpt from the EMA Recommended Guideline on Diesel Fuel concerning lubricity ( see EMA FQP-1A).

“Lubricity - Lubricity describes the ability of a fluid to minimize friction between, and damage to, surfaces in relative motion under loaded conditions. Diesel fuel injection equipment relies somewhat on the lubricating properties of the fuel. Shortened life of engine components such as fuel injection pumps and unit injectors usually can be ascribed to a lack of fuel lubricity and hence is a concern to engine manufacturers… Aftermarket additives for improving diesel fuel lubricity should not be necessary and are not covered by this recommended guideline since they may react chemically with other additives causing them to lose their effectiveness, drop out of solution or even plug filters.”

Most diesel additives are very expensive to purchase and make optimistic claims of all sorts. For the most part however, these claims remain largely unsupported by independent agencies or laboratories, including the EMA.

It's your hard earned cash, so... caveat emptor!

 

[DieselPower]

The key words there are "should not be necessary". With the very low quality standards of diesel fuel in this country (unlike other parts of the world) fuel additives can be a good aid in helping to increase the quality of fuel. In fact standards have actually gone down. With the most recent changes the NCWM (National Conference on Weights and Measures) made they removed the Cummins L-10 Detergency Test. On top of that we here in the US have the lowest standard for fuel lubricity. In almost every other country in the world the lubricity standard is a HFRR (High Frequency Reciprocating Rig) rating of 400-450 micron, here in the US our standard is 520 micron. The majority of manufacturers state that the desired HFRR rating should be around 420 micron on the HFRR rig.

I'm not sure about other manufacturers but I know that TRC's DZL-PEP is actually used as a additive at bulk distribution points around the US by some fuel distributors.

 

[B20iac]

ihunt;

I'll be watching your posts! Just ordered L3400HST, Woods 80X, w/mech thumb, 6' Landpride 3ph,fm. Traded B20 TLB. Looking for more PTOHP, for mowing! Hope PTO rattetting issue is left to those who till deep in rocks. My old Howard Rotovator and Ford
800N never pooped the Tractor PTO!!!

Diesel additives? I'll add some early, Otherwise i'll keep it in the heated garage!

B20iac

 

[lp333]

... we here in the US have the lowest standard for fuel lubricity. In almost every other country in the world the lubricity standard is a HFRR (High Frequency Reciprocating Rig) rating of 400-450 micron, here in the US our standard is 520 micron... I know that TRC's DZL-PEP is actually used as a additive at bulk distribution points around the US by some fuel distributors.

I have seen many claims made by Texas Refinery Corp and other popular companies in the fuel treatment field. Fuel treatment is BIG BUSINESS with HUGE PROFITS; claims and sales are one thing, but independent testing and verification are quite another. Don't you think that the EMA is giving us an important warning when it says that additives "may react chemically with other additives causing them to lose their effectiveness, drop out of solution or even plug filters.”


I would like to believe that the fuel treatment claims are true. However, I am having difficulty finding independent corroboration for these claims. Can you, Shimon, or other knowledgeable people here point us in the right direction to find these independent tests that support the fuel additive claims?

 

[familyman]

I just made a fuel additive testing claim. For the first 30,000 or so miles I ran DieselKleen and MMM in the ratio described. After that I started adding the 2-stroke oil. The improvement in the sound and feel of the engine is subjective, but the mileage improvement is not. I change my fuel filter every 10,000 miles, and see no sign of gelling or other weirdness, and the engine always starts immediately and runs very well. When I DON'T add the product and fill up, I get a louder dieseling sound, and a rougher feel to the engine. The fuel mileage goes down. There's alot of info on the internet, and your common sense should be your guide. Research in the diesel truck forums might interest you.

 

[Shimon]

Can you, Shimon, or other knowledgeable people here point us in the right direction to find these independent tests that support the fuel additive claims?

If you go to the Stanadyne website you will find OEM endorsements and approval letters on the right side as PDFs. I know Southwest Research (an independent company) has found that Stanadyne does make a difference in certain injection pump applications. I can't find the document from Southwest Research but when I do I'll post it. Here is another link to some info on Stanadyne.

Now with that said...I will also say that I don't place much faith in "independent research" and all that kind of stuff. My philosophy is that everyone has an agenda and is usually trying to sell something. Who knows who actually owns these "independent research" companies? Maybe some large holding corporation owns both Stanadyne and Southwest Research. I don't know. Too many variables out there and when money is involved, all bets are off.

So, why do I say that Stanadyne works? Because the proof is in the pudding. I'm not just saying go out and use Stanadyne...but I do say that in certain applications it makes a difference and will prolong the life of your rotary injection pump. You can ask ten diesel mechanics what fuel additive to use and you may get ten different answers. I'm a marine diesel mech and recommend and use Stanadyne because in my highly un-scientific, independent testing I have found it to make a difference in performance, fuel mileage and improved longevity of fuel injection components. I don't say this lightly because the stuff is darn expensive but I put in the recommended amount into every tank of diesel I put in my truck (85 F250 6.9 diesel with Stanadyne rotary injection pump).

Yes, Stanadyne is a fuel injection pump builder and they created their fuel additive specifically for their pumps. They are not a chemical company but a fuel component company. Yes, they are out to make a buck just like everyone else but I have found their product to work and I can immediately tell when truck has not received a dose of Stanadyne. It is the only fuel additive which I recommend to my customers. I'm sure there are other good additives out there but I haven't tried them so I have no opinion on them.

The place where we send injection pumps to be rebuilt is a local outfit called Northland Diesel. They rebuild tons of pumps. They also recommend Stanadyne and it's the only diesel fuel additive they recommend and sell. And they have done their own "independent research" on truck injection pumps that have been running with and without Stanadyne and they can see a difference in delivery valve wear and longevity during a rebuild.

So, long story short is that people have all sorts of opinions. I have mine, you have yours. That's fine. I've seen enough real world evidence to drop a pretty good chunk of change on Stanadyne when I could be saving it for better uses. Of course my truck has a rotary injection pump so it needs it. I don't put any in my tractor because it's too expensive and I don't think the my Kubota needs it.

 

[Shimon]

I was just visiting another forum (theDieselStop.com) and there was a link to this guy: Adding 2 Cycle Oil To Diesel Fuel. This is a perfect example of the dangers of the Internet. Anyone can make a site and all of a sudden they are being quoted as experts. I disagree with what he has to say, but it's still an interesting read. He leaves out some of the big players in the fuel additive game.

Just a reminder that the Internet is a double edged sword...lot's of great info along with lots of BS. The trick is to find the gems in the dung heap.