Diesel Fuel Lubricity And Additives

[Texasmark]

I put in the PS for storage in my storage tanks and when filling up add the cetane boost product for hygiene and lubricity....cetane boost is just a plus....don't know if it works or not, never without it.

My 2 Fords are 60's models and still have the original injector pump and injectors. Yeah I haven't had them the whole time but I have had them during the EPA mandated fuel changes for the last 10 years and still ticking.

I won't be without "snake oil".

Mark

 

[FTG-05]

Well, one can always put in a biodiesel blend of 2% or more and get all the lubricity they need for fuel system.

[snip]

Sounds great!

Except there is no biodiesel for sale around here (i.e. within 50 miles) according to biodiesel.org.

The two places that used to have it within 50 miles (one in Scottsboro, AL, the other Madison, AL) both closed up for different reasons. Now the closest place is around 65 and 70 miles, respectively.

I can buy a good 2 stroke motor oil at any walmart, auto parts store or convenience store.

 

[3930dave]

Copperhead has a good point about water.

As fuel rail pressure has gone up, and injector geometries (orifice hole size) has gone down, those tiny water droplets that used to kinda sail through older injectors can now cause big problems. One of the reasons I picked Stanadyne is that it de-emulsifies (I prefer to remember this as coagulates) tiny water particles into larger globs of water, so the water separator/filter can do it's job better.

Decent quality bio-diesel seems to be credited with adding lubricity. Like others, I don't have a major supply of bDzl in this area, but that will be changing in the next year or 2.

Suddenly exposing an old diesel that's only been run on pure diesel fuel to high concentrations of bio will likely create an aggresive cleaning action. Plan on having extra fuel filters around.

The other thing I've come across lately (that Dodge 1/2 ton diesel thread) was a reference to biodiesel decreasing OCI. At a quick glance, there seems to be some industry attention to this factor now. Whether you use and like Amsoil or not, it is notable that they are pulling back their blanket extended drain recommendations when biodiesel is used.

People seem to generally fall into 3 categories with motor oil: Overchange, Underchange, or the smaller group that will sample and try and push OCI towards the maximum interval.

I'm not condeming biodiesel, but personally plan to study more on the effects of biodiesel on reducing OCI, as it has now been in use enough for longer term engine data to be available.

Rgds, D.

 

[Texasmark]

Copperhead has a good point about water.

As fuel rail pressure has gone up, and injector geometries (orifice hole size) has gone down, those tiny water droplets that used to kinda sail through older injectors can now cause big problems. One of the reasons I picked Stanadyne is that it de-emulsifies (I prefer to remember this as coagulates) tiny water particles into larger globs of water, so the water separator/filter can do it's job better.

Decent quality bio-diesel seems to be credited with adding lubricity. Like others, I don't have a major supply of bDzl in this area, but that will be changing in the next year or 2.

Suddenly exposing an old diesel that's only been run on pure diesel fuel to high concentrations of bio will likely create an aggresive cleaning action. Plan on having extra fuel filters around.

The other thing I've come across lately (that Dodge 1/2 ton diesel thread) was a reference to biodiesel decreasing OCI. At a quick glance, there seems to be some industry attention to this factor now. Whether you use and like Amsoil or not, it is notable that they are pulling back their blanket extended drain recommendations when biodiesel is used.

People seem to generally fall into 3 categories with motor oil: Overchange, Underchange, or the smaller group that will sample and try and push OCI towards the maximum interval.

I'm not condeming biodiesel, but personally plan to study more on the effects of biodiesel on reducing OCI, as it has now been in use enough for longer term engine data to be available.

Rgds, D.

Ask Willie Nelson about it. I understand he is invested in the Carl's Corner operation on I 35E South of Waxahachie, TX. South of Dallas. He runs his (infamous) bus on it and has for years.

Mark

 

[two4spooky]

I do not think biodiesel.org is very accurate or at least not up to date. The places they list for my area only carry B5-B20. They exclude the larger stops where B5-B20 biodiesel is available such as LOVE's Truck Stop(where I buy my fuel) and several others that are closer to me. I use the busiest station that is convenient, they should have the freshest diesel.

Sounds great!

Except there is no biodiesel for sale around here (i.e. within 50 miles) according to biodiesel.org.

The two places that used to have it within 50 miles (one in Scottsboro, AL, the other Madison, AL) both closed up for different reasons. Now the closest place is around 65 and 70 miles, respectively.

I can buy a good 2 stroke motor oil at any walmart, auto parts store or convenience store.

 

[two4spooky]

FWIW regarding storage, Power Service has another product called "CLEAR DIESEL". New product??? It supposedly is a stabilizer like STABIL for keeping fuel fresh among other things. I found it at Walmart next to the other PS products.

I put in the PS for storage in my storage tanks and when filling up add the cetane boost product for hygiene and lubricity....cetane boost is just a plus....don't know if it works or not, never without it.

My 2 Fords are 60's models and still have the original injector pump and injectors. Yeah I haven't had them the whole time but I have had them during the EPA mandated fuel changes for the last 10 years and still ticking.

I won't be without "snake oil".

Mark

 

[Copperhead]

In my Detroit Series 60, it has only gotten a diet of some bio in the blend. Mostly 5%-10%. I regularly run the oil changes out to 150% of the OEM recommended drain interval. The OEM drain interval is 15,000 miles, and I usually go out to 22,500 ballpark. Oil samples look fine. No evidence of fuel dilution or other issues that can occasionally crop up with bio.

And that is one area one does have to keep abreast of... fuel dilution. Bio has a higher flash point and a higher vapor point than petro diesel. There will always be some fuel that gets past the rings. Usually the internal heat is enough that the fuel just vaporizes and is passed on thru the CCV. In rare occasions, internal heat may not quite do the job regarding bio and it can accumulate in the oil sump. It is not a common thing, but it can happen.

So, bio is a mixed bag. It provides a big boost in lubricity, it raises cetane level of fuel, it has a higher flash point which improves the burn in the chamber, but it also can attract problems like algae or fuel dilution. But then petro diesel also has problems that can crop up. Diesels require a little more diligence on the owner's part to keep on top of things. Doesn't make one fuel better than the other, just means that the issues are different.

Two4spooky has a good methodology. If folks have a high volume fuel outlet like a truck stop nearby, that is the best source for diesel due to high volume of fuel pumped. Little time to sit and grow algae and for water to accumulate.

 

[FTG-05]

I do not think biodiesel.org is very accurate or at least not up to date. The places they list for my area only carry B5-B20. They exclude the larger stops where B5-B20 biodiesel is available such as LOVE's Truck Stop(where I buy my fuel) and several others that are closer to me. I use the busiest station that is convenient, they should have the freshest diesel.

Besides driving around or calling everyone who sells diesel, how else do you find it?

The nearest Love's to me is 65 miles away.

 

[nova3930]

Dieselhead friend of mine turned me on to the report in the op a long time ago. At the time the best combination of effectiveness and ready availability was DieselKleen. Basically been using it in all my diesel engines since both the Dodge cummins and my mustang skid steer with a yanmar. You can tell a significant difference in the injector pump noise on the cummins.

Since that report was issued a fair number of the lower performing products have been reformulated with the same additive (slickdiesel) that's in DieselKleen so they perform significantly better. DieselKleen is still just about the most readily available though.

I'd really like to try the optilube but the hassle and expense is just so much greater than the DieselKleen. By my math I can do a double dose of DieselKleen and still come off cheaper than optilube.

 

[3930dave]

In my Detroit Series 60, it has only gotten a diet of some bio in the blend. Mostly 5%-10%. I regularly run the oil changes out to 150% of the OEM recommended drain interval. The OEM drain interval is 15,000 miles, and I usually go out to 22,500 ballpark. Oil samples look fine. No evidence of fuel dilution or other issues that can occasionally crop up with bio.

And that is one area one does have to keep abreast of... fuel dilution. Bio has a higher flash point and a higher vapor point than petro diesel. There will always be some fuel that gets past the rings. Usually the internal heat is enough that the fuel just vaporizes and is passed on thru the CCV. In rare occasions, internal heat may not quite do the job regarding bio and it can accumulate in the oil sump. It is not a common thing, but it can happen.

So, bio is a mixed bag. It provides a big boost in lubricity, it raises cetane level of fuel, it has a higher flash point which improves the burn in the chamber, but it also can attract problems like algae or fuel dilution. But then petro diesel also has problems that can crop up. Diesels require a little more diligence on the owner's part to keep on top of things. Doesn't make one fuel better than the other, just means that the issues are different.

Two4spooky has a good methodology. If folks have a high volume fuel outlet like a truck stop nearby, that is the best source for diesel due to high volume of fuel pumped. Little time to sit and grow algae and for water to accumulate.

Thanks for the explanation Copperhead. I had noted the more common listings of % Fuel Dilution tolerance on better diesel oils, and had thought that was due to higher rail pressures today. I now see how bio can factor into that situation too.

Since an oil or engine manufacturer can not mandate that a customer use Oil Analysis testing, the safe thing for them to do is spec a shorter OCI with Biodiesel use. Really a topic for another thread, but I noticed Amsoil doing the same de-rating of OCI interval with ethanol contaminated gasoline.

Your post also has me considering lightly loaded diesels in the dead of Winter here..... re. the low heat scenario you describe. I can see why engine Manuf. aren't fans of B20+.

+1 on the busy truck stop strategy..... I have closer stations, but choose to go to a Husky truck stop about 20 km away. They are busy enough that they often get 2 deliveries of diesel in a day.

Rgds, D.