Diesel fuel vs. Heating Oil ??

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   / Diesel fuel vs. Heating Oil ?? #21  
I don't think it's a trade secret. Here's a link to the State of New Jersey's fuel contract which includes specs. It shows specified pour points and shows how each vendor creates the winter blend. It can be a mix of 2D & kerosene or 2D and a chemical additive.

http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/purchase/noa/contracts/t1845.shtml#instruct

Read the instructions/specifications section.
 
   / Diesel fuel vs. Heating Oil ?? #22  
Interesting information. Thanks for pointing it out.

The point I take away from it is that the characteristics of the fuel change depending on the additives. i.e. the cloud point can be lowered by adding kerosene or other additives. New Jersey set out some specific requirements from bidders that can (presumably) be met. However, it doesn't answer the question that was raised about the characteristics of the fuel sold at a commercial outlet.
 
   / Diesel fuel vs. Heating Oil ?? #23  
I've had diesel gel on me twice. When you get close to freezing you have to be careful where you buy fuel. If you buy from a station that doesn't sell enough diesel to turn the inventory often enough to get frequent deliveries, you can end up with a tank of straight 2D when the temps drop.

Learned the hard way. When it's cold enough for ice and snow, you need winter blend.
 
   / Diesel fuel vs. Heating Oil ?? #24  
Richard - what you do sounds like common sense. Most of the trouble with "ideas" like this is that no one ever does anything differently, so no one thinks it will work. I bet it's very simple, like you are doing.

Bob - That's why I want a mole in the industry.

Egon - No fair using common sense in this conversation! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Darren - 2D and kerosene, that sounds familiar.

Steve - Thanks for generating the conversation!
 
   / Diesel fuel vs. Heating Oil ??
  • Thread Starter
#25  
how cold does it have to get??......

My diesel mechanic (for the Ford Powerstroke) told me last winter, anytime it gets below 20 degrees F you need the winterized stuff. My experience gave credence to that this last winter in NH when he had to come pick up the Ford and he lectured me on where to buy my fuel (High volume / turnover station near me). That's when I discovered I did have a block heater on my rig! (Had just purchased it used and the dealer didn't know much about it...)


Steve
/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
   / Diesel fuel vs. Heating Oil ?? #26  
My supplier said the off road diesel and heating oil is the same stuff - dye is the only difference. No problem using your heating oil for the tractor since it's exempt from the taxes anyway, would only be a problem in an on road vehicle. My tank is in my garage, gets down to 20 or so at times but I've never had a problem. I DO add conditioner to the stuff in the winter when I put it in my tractor. Re the sulfur content - higher sulfur is BETTER for the engine, sulfur is lubricity, good for the engine, not so good for the environment (sulfur combines with water and creates sulfuric acid, ie acid rain). That's why the road fuel has a lower sulfur content - EPA mandates. New diesels are designed to run on the lower sulfur but are not harmed by a higher sulfur fuel. (You CAN run straight kerosene, which by the way is what jet fuel is, but it has very little lubricity and will harm the engine after extended use.)
 
   / Diesel fuel vs. Heating Oil ??
  • Thread Starter
#27  
In 30 years of running diesel trucks and equipment I would say that below 20° is a safe bet to start using winterized or blended fuel as when you hit 0° it will jell up. I use the Amoco premium fuels year round in my tractors. It has higher cetane and is a low sulfer fuel with additive for alge, anti gell, etc. Many places sell high sulfer heating oil for diesel and while it will work you will probably experience more problems with the injection system. Amoco / BP has good descritions of the various diesel fuels and their properties.
 
   / Diesel fuel vs. Heating Oil ??
  • Thread Starter
#28  
I have yet to see clean #2 oil gel, where I sit on the South shore of Lake Ontario.
Diesel gelling occurs when the fuel is contaminated with water and crud. That's the reason aircraft refuelers MUST sit for 8 hours after filling off the tank farm, so the crap & water settle off and can be drawn off the tank.
Diesel fuel is a lot like milk that hasn't been homogenized. When it's all shook up from running thru the pump, the water is encapsulated, but if you let it set, the water and crud settle out. A properly set up bulk tank doesn't draw off the bottom, so the water stays in the bulk tank.
It's simple enough to stick the settled tank with water paste and determine if you have water in your fuel, and if you don't, you are asking for trouble.
Most people fill machines at the end of the work day, and have problems starting in the morning cause they are drawing off a tank of settled fuel, it's much better to fuel at the beginning of the day.
Having a good filter at the bulk tank will save plenty of problems too, and I have yet to find a machine where the filter was easier to change than the one on the bulk tank.
Buying your fuel at high volume stations doesn't solve the problem because all you are getting is fuel with encapsulated water. There is no incentive for any station operator to provide water free fuel given that he can sell water for over a buck a gallon.
The only difference between off road and home heating oil is color, and that's only a difference in states that tax the products differently. Sulfur content is the same across the board, dependant on the geographical area you are buying in and the pollution regulations. 20 years ago, Agway strongly marketed their green Diesel fuel, and convinced a lot of people it was special. The only special thing was a 5 gallon bucket of food coloring the drivers dumped into the truck to color the fuel before the truck left the terminal, it all came off the same line at the rack. The only difference between on road or off road is TAX.
Winter fuel is just a mix of #2 and kerosene, and has less BTUs per gallon, and therefore less power. If your engine is set up right, and you have good battery's, there is no reason to run winter blend, especially considering there is less lubricity in a gallon of winter mix. Diesels require lubricity in the fuel.
NOW, if you do buy your fuel and pay road tax on it, definitely file the IRS form every year. The form takes 10 minutes to fill out, and if everybody did it for their lawnmower gas and tractor fuel, IRS would go into lockup cause they couldn't process all the forms. IRS going into lockup condition would be a good thing.
 
   / Diesel fuel vs. Heating Oil ?? #29  
   / Diesel fuel vs. Heating Oil ??
  • Thread Starter
#30  
Frantz,

Not to disagree:

I HAVE had clean #2 gel from top to bottom of the truck fuel tank in a 24hr layover at -10f. The filter, line, tanks were all a mess and there was no water in the system. The truck was fueled from our private tank which I checked regularly for water. The same morning a truck which was fueled off site had the same problems. It took a couple hours in the shop to warm up a bit and they were fine with no water in the systems. The trucks which had the premier fuel were not gelled. The trucks in the barn were not gelled and had no water in them either.The local furnace companies find a lot of wax plugged furnace filters here in Michigan too, no water either.
 
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