Diesel Gelling - Never Would Have Expected It

[FTG-05]

Your correct a crappy report,what was i thinking ? Maybe if you do a little follow up you will be able to comprehend what my point was?

Or instead of beating around the bush, why don't you just make your point clear?

What does the Spicer report/test on diesel fuel lubricity have to do with diesel fuel gelling?

And while you're at it, please show me where I said it was a "crappy" report. Go ahead, I'm waiting.

 

[coobie]

Or instead of beating around the bush, why don't you just make your point clear?

What does the Spicer report/test on diesel fuel lubricity have to do with diesel fuel gelling?

And while you're at it, please show me where I said it was a "crappy" report. Go ahead, I'm waiting.

Ok,I will answer your question.If you go back to the spicer report look at items listed #2,5,6 and #12 tell my what you see?Thats correct it states ANTI-GEL in there products.So yes the report does have to do with anti-gelling & lubricity.

 

[OldeEnglish]

It's really easy to get fuel from any pumps that contains some water. The water in the fuel is a big contributer to the gelling. There is a gas station that is local to me that has a problem with getting ground water into their tanks after a heavy rain storm. A friend of mine that owns a large excavation/trucking company that was getting fuel there. It caused him a huge headache to drain and flush all of his equipment and the down time was costly. Seeing that I was at that station in the fall and saw the enviormental pump truck pumping the water out of the tank, I'm guessing the problem was not fixed. This can't be the only station in the world where this has happened.

I get my fuel from a reputable heating oil company that has their own diesel pumps. Their holding tanks are above ground which will avoid any ground water flooding to get in the tanks. They aren't the cheapest around at all, but guys I know that care about their trucks and equipment buy their fuel there and say it's the best. MI've never had a problem with gelling and if I run anything but the good stuff, the tractors smoke like crazy.

As for adding lube to the fuel, newer machines don't need it because they were designed for low sulfur fuel. I use Marvel's Mystery oil in the old b7100 to combat the low sulfur. I know....it's ATF fluid.... But at least it tells you exactly how much to add to the fuel. It's not expensive, and it been around for a very long time. I even run it in my vehicles when they get over 100k, haven't had a motor blow yet. My sequoia has 170k on it now and it runs like new. Had a problem with the oil pressure sending unit getting crudded up, ran MMO in the oil, 1000 mile later the sending unit workes fine. Any lubricant added to the fuel will not help combat oil gelling.

 

[coobie]

It's really easy to get fuel from any pumps that contains some water. The water in the fuel is a big contributer to the gelling. There is a gas station that is local to me that has a problem with getting ground water into their tanks after a heavy rain storm. A friend of mine that owns a large excavation/trucking company that was getting fuel there. It caused him a huge headache to drain and flush all of his equipment and the down time was costly. Seeing that I was at that station in the fall and saw the enviormental pump truck pumping the water out of the tank, I'm guessing the problem was not fixed. This can't be the only station in the world where this has happened.

I get my fuel from a reputable heating oil company that has their own diesel pumps. Their holding tanks are above ground which will avoid any ground water flooding to get in the tanks. They aren't the cheapest around at all, but guys I know that care about their trucks and equipment buy their fuel there and say it's the best. MI've never had a problem with gelling and if I run anything but the good stuff, the tractors smoke like crazy.

As for adding lube to the fuel, newer machines don't need it because they were designed for low sulfur fuel. I use Marvel's Mystery oil in the old b7100 to combat the low sulfur. I know....it's ATF fluid.... But at least it tells you exactly how much to add to the fuel. It's not expensive, and it been around for a very long time. I even run it in my vehicles when they get over 100k, haven't had a motor blow yet. My sequoia has 170k on it now and it runs like new. Had a problem with the oil pressure sending unit getting crudded up, ran MMO in the oil, 1000 mile later the sending unit workes fine. Any lubricant added to the fuel will not help combat oil gelling.

Deleted

 

[Daronspicher]

I got a surprise gelling last weekend as well, M5400DT.

I've had the tractor about a week. It was delivered on a Tuesday that was cold with a nasty wind blowing. On that day it's possible it came from a heated shop of the guy I bought it from. It was so cold I couldn't stay on it long to do much so I got it parked inside the pole building within about a half hour. No gelling issue.

Saturday it was about 17 degrees out. I picked up the white bottle of "Don't Gel" from advance auto parts and gave a nice swig to the tank (which was about 60% full) Tractor started nice, I let it run to warm up.

I ran it down the drive about 3 or 4 minutes each way to get tools out of the car back to the barn to work on getting the pickup started.

Spent about 45 minutes pushing snow, then Bam.. It went weak. I tried to limp it back inside the building but ended up about 75 feet short.

I parked the pickup strategically and used a 4 foot long piece of pvc to put the exhaust of the pickup directly on the fuel filter. After about a half hour I wasn't able to get it to start.

Second attempt, I have a set of work lights (those halogen ones that get a million degrees hot) so I ran cords out to the tractor, put one of the lights directly on the pump, the other on the filter. A couple hours later, I couldn't get it to go still.

It sat out over night, got snowed on a good inch or so. The next day I took down a bottle of the red "Already gelled up and screwed, try this" and a fresh 5 gallons of diesel out of the local pump.

Temp might have been slightly better, maybe in the low 20's. About 8 pathetic start/die cycles later it started to take, and then started to run.

I put it in the barn in case it was a short lived win. After it warmed up about 10 minutes I pushed a bit of snow before putting it away for a nicer day.

I have no idea what diesel (summer? bio?) the guy had in it when he sold it to me, no idea when the filters were changed, etc. I think I'll change the oil when the spring weather is good and the fuel filter in the late fall just before winter.

In the old days we ran a minneapolis moline in weather 30 below zero fairly often without problems. We had light diesel in the tank and some canvas curtains on the side of the motor to hold in the heat. Has anyone made anything to hold the heat in the motor for winter? I'll be inventing something this fall unless someone already has the solution.

 

[ovrszd]

Wow, I've never heard of anyone having gel problems after treating with Power Service white bottle at the appropriate ratios??? Tell us the ratio you used?

 

[Scooby074]

Wow, I've never heard of anyone having gel problems after treating with Power Service white bottle at the appropriate ratios??? Tell us the ratio you used?

I did.

Dead nuts on the label ratio too. Happened 2 times. Ive given up on PS as a result. Went to Howes, havent had a gelling issue yet knock on wood.

 

[coobie]

I did.

Dead nuts on the label ratio too. Happened 2 times. Ive given up on PS as a result. Went to Howes, havent had a gelling issue yet knock on wood.

Good to hear on the Howes. Just bought a bottle on sale.

 

[Scooby074]

Good to hear on the Howes. Just bought a bottle on sale.

Diesel Treat is good stuff. Go a little stronger than the strongest ratio (Below 0*C) and you should be good (Around 4-6oz/5gal).

 

[ovrszd]

I still don't get this?? Is the diesel fuel that much different?? As I said earlier, my supplier told me to not use Howes. Never had a problem with PS. :confused3:

 

[xring100]

I got a surprise gelling last weekend as well, M5400DT.

I've had the tractor about a week. It was delivered on a Tuesday that was cold with a nasty wind blowing. On that day it's possible it came from a heated shop of the guy I bought it from. It was so cold I couldn't stay on it long to do much so I got it parked inside the pole building within about a half hour. No gelling issue.

Saturday it was about 17 degrees out. I picked up the white bottle of "Don't Gel" from advance auto parts and gave a nice swig to the tank (which was about 60% full) Tractor started nice, I let it run to warm up.

I ran it down the drive about 3 or 4 minutes each way to get tools out of the car back to the barn to work on getting the pickup started.

Spent about 45 minutes pushing snow, then Bam.. It went weak. I tried to limp it back inside the building but ended up about 75 feet short.

I parked the pickup strategically and used a 4 foot long piece of pvc to put the exhaust of the pickup directly on the fuel filter. After about a half hour I wasn't able to get it to start.

Second attempt, I have a set of work lights (those halogen ones that get a million degrees hot) so I ran cords out to the tractor, put one of the lights directly on the pump, the other on the filter. A couple hours later, I couldn't get it to go still.

It sat out over night, got snowed on a good inch or so. The next day I took down a bottle of the red "Already gelled up and screwed, try this" and a fresh 5 gallons of diesel out of the local pump.

Temp might have been slightly better, maybe in the low 20's. About 8 pathetic start/die cycles later it started to take, and then started to run.

I put it in the barn in case it was a short lived win. After it warmed up about 10 minutes I pushed a bit of snow before putting it away for a nicer day.

I have no idea what diesel (summer? bio?) the guy had in it when he sold it to me, no idea when the filters were changed, etc. I think I'll change the oil when the spring weather is good and the fuel filter in the late fall just before winter.

In the old days we ran a minneapolis moline in weather 30 below zero fairly often without problems. We had light diesel in the tank and some canvas curtains on the side of the motor to hold in the heat. Has anyone made anything to hold the heat in the motor for winter? I'll be inventing something this fall unless someone already has the solution.

If I understand correctly you added the after the fuel had already gotten down to 17° is that correct?

 

[avc8130]

I use power service white bottle all year round in my l45. Make sure to read the bottle and get the ratio right. Below 32f is 1oz per 3 galllons of fuel. Below 0f that needs to be doubled to 2oz power 3 gallons of fuel. It also needs to be mixed in the fuel before gelling.

I use 5 gallon cans so I put 2oz in the can before filling it up. In the winter if the forecast shows weather near or under 0 I'll go add a second dose and drive the machine around to mix it up and get the double treated into the fuel system.

Never a gelling problem and I burn hho out of my inside tank.

 

[Daronspicher]

If I understand correctly you added the after the fuel had already gotten down to 17° is that correct?

Yes, the whole thing was about 17 degrees when I added the white. My ratios are hard to know since I had what I think is about a 17 gallon tank, it was about 60% fill (better than half by a bit, not at 3/4) as per the fuel gague.

And, I didn't have much of a measuring spoon with me, I looked at the fact the whole bottle should go for 100 gallons most days, 50 gallons for tough times and then gave it a good stiff dose.

Then it sloshed around and ran through the injector pump / filter / lines for a good 45 minutes before it went limp.

-Daron

 

[ovrszd]

That's how I measure, glub glub. That still puzzles me. :confused3:

 

[FTG-05]

Ok,I will answer your question.If you go back to the spicer report look at items listed #2,5,6 and #12 tell my what you see?Thats correct it states ANTI-GEL in there products.So yes the report does have to do with anti-gelling & lubricity.

Yep, just as I thought: You read what you wanted to read.

This is the part you're missing, fourth sentence under results (emphasis mine):

"Also included is the wear scar improvement provided by the additive as well as other claimed benefits of the additive. Each additive is also categorized as a Multi-purpose additive, Multi-purpose + anti-gel, Lubricity only, non-conventional, or as an additive capable of treating both gasoline and diesel fuel."

So the bottom line is that the Spicer study does not address the additives anti-gel properties in any way shape or form, only that it repeats what the manufacturers states about the additive. In other words, it's just repeating the manufacturer's advertising or what's on the additive's bottle label about anti-gelling.

Hence, to quote the Spicer study as "proof" of an additive products anti-gel ability as you did in your first post is obtuse at best and unethical at worst.

So which is it?

 

[coobie]

Yep, just as I thought: You read what you wanted to read.

This is the part you're missing, fourth sentence under results (emphasis mine):

"Also included is the wear scar improvement provided by the additive as well as other claimed benefits of the additive. Each additive is also categorized as a Multi-purpose additive, Multi-purpose + anti-gel, Lubricity only, non-conventional, or as an additive capable of treating both gasoline and diesel fuel."

So the bottom line is that the Spicer study does not address the additives anti-gel properties in any way shape or form, only that it repeats what the manufacturers states about the additive. In other words, it's just repeating the manufacturer's advertising or what's on the additive's bottle label about anti-gelling.

Hence, to quote the Spicer study as "proof" of an additive products anti-gel ability as you did in your first post is obtuse at best and unethical at worst.

So which is it?

You win,LOL. Im to old to fight>carry on.

 

[murphy1244]

That's how I measure, glub glub. That still puzzles me. :confused3:

That is correct Richard, 2 glugs per 5 gallons will do it.

 

[Garandman]

In all of my 53 years I've never seen Kerosene available "at the pump". That's a new one on me.

Number 2 diesel (summer diesel) is available here for about 2.67 per gallon. Number 1 diesel sells for 3.87 per gallon.

I run number 2 diesel all winter long.....but this wouldn't be possible without adding an anti-gel additive, such as Power Service in the white bottle. 2 ounces of power service per tank is all it takes. A bottle of Power Service lasts me about half of the winter.....but our winters are 8 months long up here.

Joel

"Got any summer plans?"
"Yes - if it falls on a weekend, we're going to have a picnic!"