Diesel Passenger Cars in the U.S.

[gsganzer]

I agree with you, if you want to spend more on gas then that's your choice.

What I have an issue with, is the inability of the government to enforce fuel economy standards by the automakers. Classifying many of the SUV's as "trucks" is just one example. The automakers aren't helping things either. Why does anyone need 250 - 300 HP in a 1/2 ton truck? Or 200 HP in a family sedan? When my wife and I were looking at Honda Accords, we wanted alloy wheels and a few other options. Guess what? Those options only come with the V6, not available with the 4 cylinder. They're able to offer and sell these because the fuel prices are kept artifically low and the government doesn't enforce fuel efficiency standards. The difference between 22 MPG and 25 MPG doesn't sound like much, but in actuality it's over 10% better fuel economy. Multiply that over 100,000 vehicles and it does a lot to conserve energy and reduce the countries energy demands.

Everyone complains about the recent price of fuel, but adjusted for inflation it's historically cheaper then it's ever been. I'm not one to preach or advocate government regulation, but most of us have kids and/or grandchildren that will be taking over after we're pushing up posies. I'm sure that they'll be cussing our wastful ways and the "me first" attitudes of today when they cap the last spent oil well.

I agree that if you want to own something that gets less desirable fuel efficiency, and have a need for it , then by all means have it. But I wish the automakers would provide a little better fuel economy on the vehicles between trucks (the real kind, not SUV's) and the econo-box gocarts.

 

[Bird]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( we wanted alloy wheels and a few other options. Guess what? Those options only come with the V6, not available with the 4 cylinder )</font>

Package deals are great, aren't they? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif When I bought a new '82 Isuzu I-Mark, the only way I could get the options I wanted had to include the alloy wheels (which I wouldn't have given a nickle for otherwise). And when I bought a new '99 Ford Escort sedan, I wanted a tachometer and power mirrors. The tachometer was only available in the SE Sport, which included the alloy wheels (which I still wouldn't give a nickle for /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif) and a spoiler on the trunk (which I also wouldn't give a nickel for). I'm one of those who cares nothing about alloy wheels one way or the other, but everything I've owned in the last 5 years had'em. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[MikePA]

<font color="blue">Why does anyone need 250 - 300 HP in a 1/2 ton truck? Or 200 HP in a family sedan? </font>
Who is better qualified to determine what my needs are, than me? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

If it's not me, who or what is better qualified to make this decision?

 

[NIXON]

Mike . Have to agree with you . If you don't want or need the HP , don't buy it ! As an aside .... Why do we have federally mandated fuel economy specs ?? So far they haven't done much to improve fuel economy . Maybe it's just a feel good thing . "our government cares " /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The only way to reduce fuel consumption in vehicles is going to be driven by market values . Don't want to pay $5.00 for a gallon of fuel to put into a car/truck that gets 15 mpg , then you'll buy something more efficient .
Until then ??? Any way , I'll keep driving my 4wd F250 deisel that gets around 18 MPG on the road , Hauls what I need it to haul . And if a Metro , Yugo or some other tin snail manages to run in front of me , well I'll let Physics decide that one . /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif John

 

[jyoutz]

I'm not surprised about his one ton. My 3/4 ton is 4x4 and I don't always practice driving habits to maximize fuel economy (I drive too fast on the interstates). One thing that is amazing about this truck is the fact that the fuel economy doesn't seem to be impacted too much by hauling or towing. It just drops by 1 or 2 mpg. I'm sure that's due to the fact that even when towing my 5th wheel, the engine just motors along at low-mod RPMs and acts like it's not working at all. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[AndyM]

<font color="blue"> Just curious, do they consider the job well-paying when the cost of a 150 mile daily commute is subtracted from their wages? </font>

I just ran off a quick spreadsheet, and then I realized you can't attach Excel files! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Anyhoo, in certain economically depressed areas around here, you should consider yourself lucky to be making $7.00 per hour. Let's say you can drive 50 miles one way for a $14 an hour job and 5 miles one way for a $7.00 per hour job. On a 40 hour week, you would make $280 per week at one job and $560 per week at the other job (before taxes, but I'm trying to keep it simple).

Assuming gasoline is $2.00 per gallon and a vehicle gets 20 miles per gallon, you would be making $275 per week at the nearby job and $510 per week at the place 50 miles away, after fuel costs. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
The extra $280 per week buys a lot of fuel! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif


You might say someone should move closer to their job...
The factory where I work is in an upscale suburb where a basic ranch on a city lot sells for $200,000. We had a brand new house built on 3.6 acres for less than $150,000, which is about the cost of just the acreage around where I work.

Trust me, I figured the costs out ahead of time... /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
I'd rather live on a few acres than a city lot in town. It's sometimes better and cheaper to drive a distance rather than buy an overpriced house on a city lot in an uppity snobby suburb subdivision where they give me a list of mandatory house colors and they tell me my pickup truck can't be parked in the driveway because it's unsightly. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[AndyM]

Speaking of spreadsheets, I did another one earlier that I really wish I could attach.

I put down four small cars I am considering buying--
2004 Chevrolet Aveo, 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid, 2004 Honda Insight, 2004 Volkswagen Golf TDI, and 2002 Daewoo Nubira (brand new leftover model for $5990).

I put in the EPA fuel mileage of each car, the current cost of fuel, how many miles I will drive per year, and the monthly payment of each car.

After figuring the total yearly cost of the monthly payments and the fuel cost per year, this is how much it would cost for one year for each vehicle--
Chevrolet Aveo $4180.23
Daewoo Nubira $3062.44
Civic Hybrid $5409.70
Honda Insight $4970.49
VW Golf TDI $5005.51

This is assuming a 60 month loan at 4.25%, 20,000 miles per year, and regular unleaded at $1.999 and diesel at $1.659.

If I pay each one off at 60 months, and I keep each one for ten years, here's the total cost of five years of payments and ten years of fuel (assuming the same prices for ten years- ha ha), in the same order...
$27,349.52
$22,855.59
$31,213.07
$28,025.48
$28,977.55

Here's the combined city/highway fuel mileage I used for each vehicle, in the same order...
31
26.5
48
63
42

I'm sure there's some flaws in this somewhere and variables that I left out that someone will point out, but you get the point.

I thought it was interesting and had to share what I had found. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif You can buy a hybrid or a diesel for between $18,000 and $20,000. The $6000 and $12000 cars don't get anywhere near the fuel mileage, but it seems like they are a little cheaper to operate in the long run. A $6000 to $14,000 savings in the beginning buys a lot of fuel, even if they use a little more. I've figured I can save over $90 per month on fuel by driving a Honda Insight to work instead of my Ranger, but I'd be paying $300 per month on the Honda and the Ranger is paid off.

I guess I have to ponder over all this a little more! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[jyoutz]

My point was just that not all large, heavy trucks get poor fuel economy. What surprises me is that your much lighter Toyota doesn't get better mileage than 24 mpg. For only 3 mpg less, my heavier vehicle has a lot more capability. I'm not knocking Toyota, I love them -just pointing out that through the wonders of modern turbo-diesel technology, it is possible to have your cake and eat it too (unless you want to discuss purchase price /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif).

 

[TresCrows]

"Until then ??? Any way , I'll keep driving my 4wd F250 deisel that gets around 18 MPG on the road , Hauls what I need it to haul . And if a Metro , Yugo or some other tin snail manages to run in front of me , well I'll let Physics decide that one . John "

So what your saying is exactly what /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif--that you are going to run over people in smaller cars? I don't think I understand that type of though process /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif. I do understand physics and I also understand what will happen if I were to run over someone besides the life long guilt, my fault or not. No thanks, I will pass on that. I obviously must be misunderstanding what you are saying--I am sure of that, right?
Joyutyes, I don't think comparing a 1990 4 banger with 250,000 miles that gets closer to 30 MPG and was paid for years ago and only cost 12,500 new is an "economy" fight you can win. It is paid for, so is the other T. My problem is I would like to buy another like it but with a small supercharged diesel--I think I made that clear--and such a thing does not currently exist to my knowledge /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif.
This thread was about diesel cars and why they are not more of them so obviously some people are interested in improving their fuel economy, for those who are not why does this thread so intimidate you? Well, don't answer, this time I am drifting off to greener threads. Y'all take care. J

 

[NIXON]

So what your saying is exactly what /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif--that you are going to run over people in smaller cars? I don't think I understand that type of though process /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif. I do understand physics and I also understand what will happen if I were to run over someone besides the life long guilt, my fault or not. No thanks, I will pass on that. I obviously must be misunderstanding what you are saying--I am sure of that, right?

Tres Crows ... Sorry if it came across that way ! I keep hearing how big cars/ trucks /Suvs , are dangerous because of their size . That if the hit a compact , they do a lot of damage . Yup ! If a Tri axle hit my truck .... It'll do a lot of damage ! But I'll stick with what I've got . Seems like there are a lot of aggressive drivers out there . They'll cut you off , pull out in front of you do all manner of odd things . And if I came off sounding like one ,well my apologies to you and anyone else that took it that way . John